movable bases

[greymule]

I umpire a modified pitch league one day a week, and on every field we have to deal with light, bargain-priced bases that are never spiked down. (The league says they're not allowed to spike them or put in permanent bases.) Naturally, these bases move every time somebody slides into them and often even when a runner steps on one on his way past. Last year, the umpires made their calls according to different criteria, so this year I'm codifying the rules for uniform application.

I would like to give the following plays as examples. How do you think they should be called?

1. Runner slides into 3B. The base moves 2 feet across the line, and the runner ends up another 2 feet past the base and is tagged.

2. Runner slides into 3B and knocks the base 15 feet away. The runner ends up past where the base originally lay and is tagged.

3. Runner slides into 3B and knocks it into the coach's box. Runner goes over and stands on the base and is tagged.

4. Runner slides into 3B and knocks it a few inches across the line. Runner is tagged standing on the base.

5. Runner slides into 3B and hooks the base with his foot. Both runner and base skid 6 feet across the line, with the runner still in contact when he is tagged.

6. Runner slides into 3B and hooks the base with his foot. Both runner and base skid 6 feet across the line, but the runner loses contact and is tagged.

7. R1 on 1B and B1 hits a double. As R1 passes 2B, he inadvertently knocks it 6 feet toward center field. B1 stands on the base and is tagged.

8. Same play, but B1 stands on the spot where the base originally lay when he is tagged.

9. Runner rounds 2B and dislodges the base 3 feet. He then dives back into 2B, but when he is tagged, he is clearly not where the base originally lay.

10. As F6 covers 2B on hit to the outfield, he knocks the base 3 feet toward right field. On a close play, the runner slides into the moved base as F6 is making the play where the base originally lay.

Can anyone think of other variations we should cover? I would like to give them a general rule to follow, but coming up with one isn't so easy. I appreciate your help.

[kellerumps]

1. Out
2. Safe
3. Out
4. Safe
5. Out
6. Out
7. Out
8. Safe
9. Out
10. Out

The basis I use is "was the runner within a resonable distance of where the base should be.". I don't have a rule book handy, so I can not backup my arguments....yet.

In all cases, I would look for the first opportunity to kill the play before things get to crazy and out of hand.

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally posted by greymule
I umpire a modified pitch league one day a week, and on every field we have to deal with light, bargain-priced bases that are never spiked down. (The league says they're not allowed to spike them or put in permanent bases.) Naturally, these bases move every time somebody slides into them and often even when a runner steps on one on his way past. Last year, the umpires made their calls according to different criteria, so this year I'm codifying the rules for uniform application.

I would like to give the following plays as examples. How do you think they should be called?

1. Runner slides into 3B. The base moves 2 feet across the line, and the runner ends up another 2 feet past the base and is tagged.

2. Runner slides into 3B and knocks the base 15 feet away. The runner ends up past where the base originally lay and is tagged.

3. Runner slides into 3B and knocks it into the coach's box. Runner goes over and stands on the base and is tagged.

4. Runner slides into 3B and knocks it a few inches across the line. Runner is tagged standing on the base.

5. Runner slides into 3B and hooks the base with his foot. Both runner and base skid 6 feet across the line, with the runner still in contact when he is tagged.

6. Runner slides into 3B and hooks the base with his foot. Both runner and base skid 6 feet across the line, but the runner loses contact and is tagged.

7. R1 on 1B and B1 hits a double. As R1 passes 2B, he inadvertently knocks it 6 feet toward center field. B1 stands on the base and is tagged.

8. Same play, but B1 stands on the spot where the base originally lay when he is tagged.

9. Runner rounds 2B and dislodges the base 3 feet. He then dives back into 2B, but when he is tagged, he is clearly not where the base originally lay.

10. As F6 covers 2B on hit to the outfield, he knocks the base 3 feet toward right field. On a close play, the runner slides into the moved base as F6 is making the play where the base originally lay.

Can anyone think of other variations we should cover? I would like to give them a general rule to follow, but coming up with one isn't so easy. I appreciate your help.

Safe in all cases except #9. HTBT for that one.

`

[whiskers_ump]

Greymule,
Nice post, here are my observations on the situtations.

1. Runner slides into 3B. The base moves 2 feet across the line, and the runner ends up another 2 feet past the base and is tagged. Safe, stationary base would have slowed the runner, and as ASA 8.9N states, Runner is considered to
have followed the base.

2. Runner slides into 3B and knocks the base 15 feet away. The runner ends up past where the base originally lay and is tagged. Safe, same as question 1. As long as he/she
made no other effort to go past other than slide. ASA 8.9N.

3. Runner slides into 3B and knocks it into the coach's box. Runner goes over and stands on the base and is tagged.
Safe, However, no need to follow base and in this case,
runner did not attempt to
advance further.

4. Runner slides into 3B and knocks it a few inches across the line. Runner is tagged standing on the base.Safe

5. Runner slides into 3B and hooks the base with his foot. Both runner and base skid 6 feet across the line, with the runner still in contact when he is tagged. Again ASA 8.9N.

6. Runner slides into 3B and hooks the base with his foot. Both runner and base skid 6 feet across the line, but the runner loses contact and is tagged. Same as 5.

7. R1 on 1B and B1 hits a double. As R1 passes 2B, he inadvertently knocks it 6 feet toward center field. B1 stands on the base and is tagged. Safe.

8. Same play, but B1 stands on the spot where the base originally lay when he is tagged. Safe

9. Runner rounds 2B and dislodges the base 3 feet. He then dives back into 2B, but when he is tagged, he is clearly not where the base originally lay. Hmmmmmm. Will agree with Mike, HTBT, probably safe. JMO

10. As F6 covers 2B on hit to the outfield, he knocks the base 3 feet toward right field. On a close play, the runner slides into the moved base as F6 is making the play where the base originally lay. Safe.

The only way I, personally, would call one out on these
situtations would be if they attempted to go beyond the dis-
loged base and advance to another.


glen






`

[Martin T.]

Originally posted by whiskers_ump

ASA 8.9N states, Runner is considered to
have followed the base.

I find this an interesting reversal of words used by ASA when ISF/ASF 8.10n is "The base is considered to
have followed the runner".

BTW, all of the above (HTBT for 9!) were safe.

[IRISHMAFIA]

ASA 8.9 RUNNER IS NOT OUT

"N. When the runner slides into a base and dislodges it from it's proper position. The base is considered to have followed the runner."

[whiskers_ump]

Or perhaps not typing what you read. LOL

Glen made a typo. off with his head.

Thanks guys. BTW, I got the reference # correct.




glen

[Elaine "Lady Blue"]

I've umpired both modified and slow pitch with the same type of bases (groan) and even without pulling out the rule book, I'd say safe except for #9 also, especially I'd say 'Safe' in #5.
Dontchca just hate it when the league says 'we can't anchor the bases'!! So bush league! :>)

[kellerumps]

This is the great thing about this forum....I was forced to (re)read the rule book(s) and learned something. This weekend when we have our rules interp, I am going to bring this up to make sure of the correct rulings with each play listed.

Thanks All....

[gsf23]

I think its a tough call no matter what you do, but in situations 1-6 on sliding, If the runner made no attempt to get up and go to another base, and he would have been safe if the base was still there, I would probably kill the play and put the runner back at third. One of the things that a fixed base does when you slide is help you stop, I don't think you can penalize the player for sliding into a base and taking it with him, no matter how far across he/she slides, especially on a hook slide or or when diving to a corner of the bag to avoid a tag. One of the things I've done and been told when playing is that if you slide and that bag moves away or dislodges, just stay where you are and don't try to go to where the bag is, and hope the ump will protect you.


In the others, when the base dislodges, I think you have to give the benefit of the doubt to the runner, as a ruuner you are taught, and it becomes instinct after a while to always go to the bag. I think it is quite a bit to ask from a runner to stop int he middle of what they are doing and try to decide if the bag is in the right spot or not. Like in situation number 10, how is the runner supposed to know that f6 moved the bag when trying to go out and make the play, I'm not watching fielders make plays, I've got my head down and running hard, how can you call the runner out for that?


I think no matter what you guys decide to do, just be consistent with it and let the players know at the beginning of every game how you are going to be calling the dislodged base. Another thing I have seen done is to get a can of field paint or chalk, and spray or chalk the the spot where the base is supposed to be. On a slide, you will probably have to redo the markings, but it would help eliminate the problems of the runner dislodging the bases, cause they should know where the origianl spot is.