Foul or fair

[clevbrown]

I would not normally ask this question because I feel I have it correct and the rule book backs me, but I am being questioned by an experienced high school baseball umpire and I want to make sure I have it right. So after reading the rule books, I am going to the "Experts" on this web site to confirm what I think or let you all convince me I am wrong.

This is NFHS Baseball but I believe it is the same answer for all levels of softball and baseball.

Is this statement true or false: A batted ball that lands without being touched in the batter's box is always a foul ball.

I believe this is false. There is a space in the batters box on the pitcher side and the home plate side (front, inside) that is in fair territory. I am being told the entire batter box is considered in foul teritory, but I have looked at the NFHS baseball, ASA SOftball, and Babe Ruth Baseball rule books and I find nothing to support this claim.

NFHS states:
A foul is a batted ball
a. which settels on foul territory between home and first base or between home and third base or
b. that bounds past first or third base on or over foul territory or
c. that first falls on foul territory beyond first or third base or
d. that while on or over foul territory, touches the person of an umpire or a player or an object foreign to the natural ground or
e. touches the ground after inadvertantly being declared foul by an umpire.

Am I right or not?

[RKBUmp]

As far as softball goes, there is a whole bunch of the batters box that is in fair territory, so the answer would be false.

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally Posted by clevbrown

I would not normally ask this question because I feel I have it correct and the rule book backs me, but I am being questioned by an experienced high school baseball umpire and I want to make sure I have it right. So after reading the rule books, I am going to the "Experts" on this web site to confirm what I think or let you all convince me I am wrong.

This is NFHS Baseball but I believe it is the same answer for all levels of softball and baseball.

Is this statement true or false: A batted ball that lands without being touched in the batter's box is always a foul ball.

I believe this is false. There is a space in the batters box on the pitcher side and the home plate side (front, inside) that is in fair territory. I am being told the entire batter box is considered in foul teritory, but I have looked at the NFHS baseball, ASA SOftball, and Babe Ruth Baseball rule books and I find nothing to support this claim.

NFHS states:
A foul is a batted ball
a. which settels on foul territory between home and first base or between home and third base or
b. that bounds past first or third base on or over foul territory or
c. that first falls on foul territory beyond first or third base or
d. that while on or over foul territory, touches the person of an umpire or a player or an object foreign to the natural ground or
e. touches the ground after inadvertantly being declared foul by an umpire.

Am I right or not?

Speaking softball, you are correct.

[derwil]

True dat........

[NCASAUmp]

Originally Posted by derwil

True dat........

Word?

Just messin'...

[AtlUmpSteve]

OK, this is often a point of misunderstanding how two different (but not necessarily opposite) rules interact.

If a batter is contacted by a batted ball while in the batter's box, the call is foul ball; no matter where in the batters box the batter is contacted.

But, any batted ball that is untouched by the batter is judged fair or foul based on an extended line from the back point of home plate to either first or third base. The batters box is immaterial, either fair or foul on those extended lines.

True in every softball ruleset, true in every baseball ruleset. Period.

[SergioJ]

Originally Posted by AtlUmpSteve

True in every softball ruleset, true in every baseball ruleset. Period.

Is that your final answer?

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally Posted by SergioJ

Is that your final answer?

I'll take "Yes" for a thousand, Alex!

[DaveASA/FED]

I was thinking the same thing Steve put. Maybe they are talking about a batter that is hit in the batters box by a batted ball, this would always be a foul ball no matter where they are in the box(fair or foul territory doesn't matter). But as everyone else has said if you are judging a ball that has not hit a batter fair or foul the batters box lines don't mean squat!

[Skahtboi]

Originally Posted by clevbrown

I would not normally ask this question because I feel I have it correct and the rule book backs me, but I am being questioned by an experienced high school baseball umpire and I want to make sure I have it right. So after reading the rule books, I am going to the "Experts" on this web site to confirm what I think or let you all convince me I am wrong.

This is NFHS Baseball but I believe it is the same answer for all levels of softball and baseball.

Is this statement true or false: A batted ball that lands without being touched in the batter's box is always a foul ball.

I believe this is false. There is a space in the batters box on the pitcher side and the home plate side (front, inside) that is in fair territory. I am being told the entire batter box is considered in foul teritory, but I have looked at the NFHS baseball, ASA SOftball, and Babe Ruth Baseball rule books and I find nothing to support this claim.

NFHS states:
A foul is a batted ball
a. which settels on foul territory between home and first base or between home and third base or
b. that bounds past first or third base on or over foul territory or
c. that first falls on foul territory beyond first or third base or
d. that while on or over foul territory, touches the person of an umpire or a player or an object foreign to the natural ground or
e. touches the ground after inadvertantly being declared foul by an umpire.

Am I right or not?

When you say "experienced baseball umpire," are you talking about number of years spent in the profession or number of hours spent studying the game on a daily basis. There are lots of umpires with a number of years in the profession who still don't know squat, sadly.

[outathm]

"There are lots of umpires with a number of years in the profession who still don't know squat, sadly."

I like to call these guys '20 year rookies'. I even get to work with one today, LUCKY ME!

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally Posted by outathm

"There are lots of umpires with a number of years in the profession who still don't know squat, sadly."

I like to call these guys '20 year rookies'. I even get to work with one today, LUCKY ME!

Nah, rookies are smarter

[CecilOne]

At the risk of being called an impostor, the "experienced high school baseball umpire " needs to "attend" more clinics, mentally.

[MD Longhorn]

Originally Posted by outathm

"There are lots of umpires with a number of years in the profession who still don't know squat, sadly."

I like to call these guys '20 year rookies'. I even get to work with one today, LUCKY ME!

I don't like that. Most rookies (MOST!) are eager, hard-working, hustling, and not yet jaded. These 20-year veteran know-nothings are a blight on the sport, but they are everywhere.

Instead of a guy with 20-years experience, they are guys with 1 year experience 20 times.

[clevbrown]

Thanks for the answers guys. That is why I always come back to this forum for anwers (after I look them up of course.

Thanks