What is an outfielder/infielder?

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally Posted by Tru_in_Blu

Outfield positions will start each play "on the grass".

Regardless of level, comments of ignorance like this is what perpetuates myths.

I understand what they are attempting to do, but they need to realize that something as simple as this not worded in the proper manner will get a daddy-ball coach ejected somewhere down the road at a higher level and will never understand why.

[saharvey2]

Thank you for the prompt input.

It seems to me that this is a gray area that would require the league add a definition to the league rules supplement. Supplementing the official rules with league rules is a poor choice in my mind.

Stuart Harvey

[CecilOne]

Originally Posted by saharvey2

Supplementing the official rules with league rules is a poor choice in my mind.

Stuart Harvey

welcome to the club,a s well as to the forum.

[Tru_in_Blu]

Originally Posted by IRISHMAFIA

Regardless of level, comments of ignorance like this is what perpetuates myths.

I understand what they are attempting to do, but they need to realize that something as simple as this not worded in the proper manner will get a daddy-ball coach ejected somewhere down the road at a higher level and will never understand why.

What could you offer in the way of "proper wording"?

I didn't write this league's bylaw, but I'd hardly refer to it as "ignorant". Yes, they're attempting to instruct the players in positional play. I've seen youth soccer and the term "herd ball" is an appropriate description of how the really young kids play. So many times in softball games at this level I see a popup fall among 3 players because no one took charge. It's all part of learning how to play the game.

We know that short fielders can play anywhere [in fair territory]. The SS can play on the RF side of 2B, or the second baseman can play a "shift" into short RF. Except for the battery, you could play all remaining players on either side of 2B.

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally Posted by Tru_in_Blu

What could you offer in the way of "proper wording"?

How about no wording? If they cover the outfield, they are outfielders; infield, infielders.

I didn't write this league's bylaw, but I'd hardly refer to it as "ignorant".

Do you understand the word? It is a lack of knowledge or awareness. I would prefer that this be the case instead of someone intentionally providing something that contradicts the rules.

Yes, they're attempting to instruct the players in positional play. I've seen youth soccer and the term "herd ball" is an appropriate description of how the really young kids play. So many times in softball games at this level I see a popup fall among 3 players because no one took charge. It's all part of learning how to play the game.

We know that short fielders can play anywhere [in fair territory]. The SS can play on the RF side of 2B, or the second baseman can play a "shift" into short RF. Except for the battery, you could play all remaining players on either side of 2B.

Teaching players the game and providing bad references are two different things. I have encountered coaches at a 16U national which lived on misinformation he received at the local level

[youngump]

Originally Posted by IRISHMAFIA

Teaching players the game and providing bad references are two different things. I have encountered coaches at a 16U national which lived on misinformation he received at the local level

How is a local rule misinformation? We have a league where if you hit the ball over the fence in certain spots in flight it's a double. Is this misinformation?

[NCASAUmp]

Originally Posted by youngump

How is a local rule misinformation? We have a league where if you hit the ball over the fence in certain spots in flight it's a double. Is this misinformation?

That'd be a ground rule, unless that section of fence is shorter than the minimum prescribed distance. Then, it'd be an actual rule.

I can't quite agree with Irish on the line issue. Rules are established before a game to set the level of expectation based on the anticipated level of competition and fair play. If the level of play is that low, then I see nothing wrong with setting up additional "parameters" within which the game is to be played. Granted, a player playing in such a league won't learn much about the proper way to play the sport, but if her goal isn't advancement, what's wrong with it?

Like bumpers in bowling. It doesn't help the players improve, but it can improve the enjoyment of the game. And if everyone agrees to their use, I see no harm in it.

Then again, I used to bowl in the 200s (without bumpers and with the foul lights activated) when I was 11, so... Might not be a good example.

[Dakota]

What Mike was talking about was giving people the expectation / belief that the grass has any part in the rules at all, especially regarding infielders and outfielders. Can anyone here actually say they have never heard a coach complain "that can't be an infield fly... it was caught on the grass"? Local rules like the one quoted reinforce that fallicy (and were perhaps written by someone who believes that fallicy - or, in other words, by someone who is ignorant regarding the rules).

[NCASAUmp]

Originally Posted by Dakota

What Mike was talking about was giving people the expectation / belief that the grass has any part in the rules at all, especially regarding infielders and outfielders. Can anyone here actually say they have never heard a coach complain "that can't be an infield fly... it was caught on the grass"? Local rules like the one quoted reinforce that fallicy (and were perhaps written by someone who believes that fallicy - or, in other words, by someone who is ignorant regarding the rules).

Oh, I certainly understand that it perpetuates myths. And if the player rises through the ranks, s/he will hopefully have a decent enough coach that these myths will be short-lived.

Okay, I know that last part is a tall order, but you get what I'm saying.

[robbie]

Originally Posted by Dakota

What Mike was talking about was giving people the expectation / belief that the grass has any part in the rules at all, especially regarding infielders and outfielders. Can anyone here actually say they have never heard a coach complain "that can't be an infield fly... it was caught on the grass"? Local rules like the one quoted reinforce that fallicy (and were perhaps written by someone who believes that fallicy - or, in other words, by someone who is ignorant regarding the rules).

I agree "on the grass" means nothing. That would also depend on how deep the dirt cut is.

In our 8U town ball, our local rule states that outfielders must be at least 10ft beyond the bases until ball is contacted.

[Steve M]

Originally Posted by IRISHMAFIA

Teaching players the game and providing bad references are two different things. I have encountered coaches at a 16U national which lived on misinformation he received at the local level

I think I met one of them. He got worked up enough about his misinformation that he said he wanted to see you - and I allowed him to go right then.

[MD Longhorn]

Originally Posted by Tru_in_Blu

I didn't write this league's bylaw, but I'd hardly refer to it as "ignorant".

If you take away the bad connotation of that word, I'd say it is the very definition of ignorant. Almost 100% of the time, when a league writes a rule, the writers are ignorant of rules (you won't find umpires involved in this), so they write a rule that sounds good, yet is either undefined in many ways, incompletely explained, or contradictory to itself. Yours, as described, is a worthless addendum. Saying Outfielders must play on the grass is ignorant, as if one should wander in too close, they aren't outfielders anymore. I understand their intent - but perhaps a better rule would be, "A team may have no more than 6 infielders at the time of the pitch, including pitcher and catcher". Infielder is already defined by ASA, so you would have less issues with this than what they've written.