Score the Run?

[IRISHMAFIA]

Speaking ASA

1B & 2B, 2 out. Ground ball between pitcher and SS. R1 hesitates to let the ball pass and then gets tangled up with F6 and goes to the ground. R2 who got a good jump on the ball flies by the R1 who is still rolling on the ground. BU rules R2 out on the passing, but she keeps going and then PU rings her up on an easy put-out at 3B.

End of the half-inning?
Place the runners?
Score the run?

[Tru_in_Blu]

Since BU was in excellent position and did not see fit to call interference, which would have killed the play immediately, and he did not call obstruction which would have resulted in a DDB, once R2 passed R1 s/he did call R2 out for passing R1.

Since it's the 3rd out, end of inning right there. The play at 3B becomes moot.

Now, if we're supposed to infer there was obstruction somehow. Call the out for R2 passing R1, call time, and award the base(s) you think would have be attained. Maybe home for R1 if she wasn't so clutsy. Remove the out for passing. Probably end up w/ a run scored, and runners on 1 & 3.

[SRW]

Originally Posted by Tru_in_Blu

Remove the out for passing. Probably end up w/ a run scored, and runners on 1 & 3.

I disagree on R2 at 3rd. The OBS in the OP didn't appear to prevent R2 from getting to 3B... only R1 from advancing.

With the interpretation earlier this month, I would HTBT, but probably R3 on 1B, R2 at 2B, and depending on the hit and my judgement, R1 at either 3B or home, 2 outs.

[SRW]

Originally Posted by IRISHMAFIA

Speaking ASA

1B & 2B, 2 out. Ground ball between pitcher and SS. R1 hesitates to let the ball pass and then gets tangled up with F6 and goes to the ground. R2 who got a good jump on the ball flies by the R1 who is still rolling on the ground. BU rules R2 out on the passing, but she keeps going and then PU rings her up on an easy put-out at 3B.

End of the half-inning?
Place the runners?
Score the run?

Where did the BR end up at the end of the play?

[JefferMC]

What I'm seeing on this play is Irish taking a dig on the new interpretation.

F6 obstructed R1. Therefore, as soon as the tag is applied on R2, we klll the play, R1 gets 3B or Home, R2 gets 2B, R3 gets 1B and we keep playing.

[youngump]

Originally Posted by JefferMC

What I'm seeing on this play is Irish taking a dig on the new interpretation.

F6 obstructed R1. Therefore, as soon as the tag is applied on R2, we klll the play, R1 gets 3B or Home, R2 gets 2B, R3 gets 1B and we keep playing.

Where in the new interpretation did it say we could kill the play for the out of the non-obstructed runner? As I read the interp, they like your base assignments, but want you to wait until playing action is complete to make them.

[Big Slick]

Originally Posted by JefferMC

What I'm seeing on this play is Irish taking a dig on the new interpretation.

F6 obstructed R1. Therefore, as soon as the tag is applied on R2, we klll the play, R1 gets 3B or Home, R2 gets 2B, R3 gets 1B and we keep playing.

As youngump said, the play isn't over until the obstructed runner is put out (per current rule). I think Mike is going a step further: we have a retired runner drawing a throw. Would this not fit the definition of interference? Ok, maybe not in this case, but you could see where it could.

Here is where Mike and I agree (well, we agree on a lot of things: softball rules-yes; textiles - no ). We already had a rule to cover this, you cannot pass a preceding runner. The second part of obstruction covered you ( . . "and all other runner effected by obstruction.") This interpretation, as does the explicit NFHS/NCAA rule that exempts a runner passing an obstruction from being out, creates the big can of worms.

I have previously mentioned how to fix the rule to prevent the can of worms.

[DaveASA/FED]

Originally Posted by youngump

Where in the new interpretation did it say we could kill the play for the out of the non-obstructed runner? As I read the interp, they like your base assignments, but want you to wait until playing action is complete to make them.

Once the R2 passes R1 all action has stopped since that would have been the 3rd out of the inning.

JefferMC,
I agree Irish is trying to create a what if to attempt to shoot a hole in the new interp, or to gather a list of different ways that new interp might be applied by a group of umpires (us).

[Tru_in_Blu]

Originally Posted by DaveASA/FED

Once the R2 passes R1 all action has stopped since that would have been the 3rd out of the inning.

That's how I saw it. Anything happens after that [short of some malicious contact] is moot.

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally Posted by SRW

Where did the BR end up at the end of the play?

Irrelevant to my point, but lets say 2B since you asked.

[IRISHMAFIA]

Well, this thread died quicker than it started.

My point when I started typing was to point out that R2 being thrown out at 3B had nothing to do with the OBS. As I typed I realized all the different issues that could rise out of a situation like this.

I don't know if I would be too quick on the INT for drawing a throw though I could see an umpire making that ruling.

And can R2 be called out more than once if it was obvious she did not hear the BU? Or for that matter, what if the BU already has in mind this interpretation, makes no out call and then R2 gets thrown out at 3B?

R2 could have checked-up if hearing the original out call for passing, but then are we looking at the OBS or umpire's appropriate ruling as the cause.

What if R2 continued, but B5 is thrown out at 2B prior to R2 getting to 3B? You still scoring the OBS runner since she hesitated off 2B and probably would not have scored by the time of the out at 2B?

Hell, you can do an awful lot of fishing with this can of worms.