What would you do?

[hit4power]

I'm not a blue but curious as to thoughts on the following:

HS ball under Fed, no outs, R1 @ 2B, R2 @ 1B. B3 squares to bunt and sends a spinning squibber up the first base line, clearly curving for the foul line. PU comes out from behind the plate, throws his arms up and says "Foul" ---- at the same time as F3, standing in fair territory, boots the ball into foul territory. Since half the parents are screaming "Fair ball", the defensive plays on and when the dust settles, R1 has scored, R2 is at 3B and B3 stands at 2B.
Needless to say, the DC was livid, but after both umps talk, the play stands.

I know there is a huge component of HTBT in this, but I'm curious how often you apply 10.2.m (allowing PU to rectify any situation where an incorrect call put one side or the other in jeopardy) and how do you judge whether a muffed call actually put one side in jeopardy, i.e., in this sitch the defense never stopped playing the ball.

[youngump]

Originally Posted by hit4power

I'm not a blue but curious as to thoughts on the following:

HS ball under Fed, no outs, R1 @ 2B, R2 @ 1B. B3 squares to bunt and sends a spinning squibber up the first base line, clearly curving for the foul line. PU comes out from behind the plate, throws his arms up and says "Foul" ---- at the same time as F3, standing in fair territory, boots the ball into foul territory. Since half the parents are screaming "Fair ball", the defensive plays on and when the dust settles, R1 has scored, R2 is at 3B and B3 stands at 2B.
Needless to say, the DC was livid, but after both umps talk, the play stands.

I know there is a huge component of HTBT in this, but I'm curious how often you apply 10.2.m (allowing PU to rectify any situation where an incorrect call put one side or the other in jeopardy) and how do you judge whether a muffed call actually put one side in jeopardy, i.e., in this sitch the defense never stopped playing the ball.

Foul ball. You can't uncall it when it's been called.

[JEL]

As has been noted, once it is called foul, it can't be un-done.

You are mis-applying/reading 10-2-m as well. That allows for rectification when a decision has been reversed and a team is put in jeopardy.

Once that ball was called foul, play ceases. Nothing else (of consequence) can happen. The defense can't keep playing the ball, because it is dead!

[CajunNewBlue]

Can i use 10-2-m to find out what the heck a "spinning squibber" is??

[hit4power]

Thanks for the clarification on 10-2-m. So what should have happened is for the foul call to stand, everyone goes back and we have a strike on B3 and presumably a very unhappy OC over a blown fair/foul call.

But that's not what happened, so my next question is what recourse, if any, does the DC have at this point? There's nothing to appeal is there?

[JEL]

The DC can question, stomp, cuss and spit (might not ought to!) but you are correct, there is nothing to protest. It was poor umpiring mechanics, not the mis-application of a playing rule that you are dealing with.

Oh yeah Cajun, I worked opening day rec 10U stuff saturday. It is a love/hate type thing, love the games and kids, but hate that we have digressed to using pitching machines! Easy games though but really dumbs things down.

That machine can put some funky spins on the ball. If ever there were a "spinning squibber" I had at least 5 saturday. One guy was adamant that a high pop up that hit foul behind the catcher could never roll into fair territory. It did, I pointed it fair, no one moved for a while!

[robbie]

Originally Posted by JEL

The DC can question, stomp, cuss and spit (might not ought to!) but you are correct, there is nothing to protest. It was poor umpiring mechanics, not the mis-application of a playing rule that you are dealing with.

I think I disagree. Assuming it were a tournament setting where an appeal would be rulled on immediately, I certainly could see upholding a DC's protest.

Something along the lines:
Blue ruled the ball foul on the field. When a foul is ruled, the play is dead and all play stops. But the Blue erred in allowing ensuing action to count. Thus me misapplied the rule pertaining to foul balls.

[Dutch Alex]

Originally Posted by robbie

I think I disagree. Assuming it were a tournament setting where an appeal would be rulled on immediately, I certainly could see upholding a DC's protest.

Something along the lines:
Blue ruled the ball foul on the field. When a foul is ruled, the play is dead and all play stops. But the Blue erred in allowing ensuing action to count. Thus me misapplied the rule pertaining to foul balls.

Yep, correct! If I call "Foul" and then "correct" it by pointing fair or worse let play proceed and let the play stand, at least one coach will protest AND win that protest!

[ronald]

did f3 touch the ball in fair territory? let's see we have

ball clearly curving for the foul line - hence in fair territory

ump rules foul at same time

f3 in fair territory boots (kicks or misplays ball) into foul terr.

I want that cleared up. My thinking is the ball was touched in fair territory.

So

I got a --- up that i am correcting.

batter awarded 1b, others advanced if forced.

coach: i screwd up. this is the solution. let's play ball and i walk back to my position.

[Rich Ives]

Originally Posted by ronald

did f3 touch the ball in fair territory? let's see we have

ball clearly curving for the foul line - hence in fair territory

ump rules foul at same time

f3 in fair territory boots (kicks or misplays ball) into foul terr.

I want that cleared up. My thinking is the ball was touched in fair territory.

So

I got a --- up that i am correcting.

batter awarded 1b, others advanced if forced.

coach: i screwd up. this is the solution. let's play ball and i walk back to my position.

In HS ball you can't do that. Once declared "foul" and it touches the ground it's forever foul. 2-16-1-e

[BretMan]

I think that you're referencing the FED baseball rule book there, Rich.

[ronald]

Originally Posted by youngump

Foul ball. You can't uncall it when it's been called.

who or what says so. 10-1-4 says different. "...If there is reasonable doubt about a ruling being in conflict with the rules (called foul when it was touched fair), the coach or captain may ask that the correct ruling be made..."

Now go to 10.3m and make your ruling.

you put the batter runner in jeopardy and now you will put the defense in jeopardy.

what a screw up!

[youngump]

Originally Posted by ronald

who or what says so. 10-1-4 says different. "...If there is reasonable doubt about a ruling being in conflict with the rules (called foul when it was touched fair), the coach or captain may ask that the correct ruling be made..."

Now go to 10.3m and make your ruling.

you put the batter runner in jeopardy and now you will put the defense in jeopardy.

what a screw up!

What's that reference? I have an '08 rulebook here but not my current one. Is that a case play?

[ronald]

Youngump,

It is the 2011 rule book.

Ron

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally Posted by ronald

Youngump,

It is the 2011 rule book.

Ron

It's 10.2.3.m in my book