excessive defensive contact of baserunner

[aflacduck31]

Hi all - new to the forum.

I coach an 8u team that is coach pitch. We played our first game Saturday and a play occurred that I was curious about.

With 1 out and runners on 1st (r2) and 2nd (r1), batter (b1) hits a ball through the left side of the infield. R2 touches third and heads home on the play as the ball returns to the infield. The defensive third baseman retrieves the ball near the circle and runs down the runner attempting to score.

The defensive player applies the tag to the runner (before she reaches home plate) from behind to the runners left shoulder. The tag is applied with both arms bent in some semblance of a "praying" motion. Once the tag is applied, the fielder extends both arms, shoving the runner to the ground.

The umpire makes no immediate call, but calls the opposing coach to the field for a conference that does not include me. When he returns to the plate and indicates ready for play, he informs me that the out stands. The tagged baserunner has to be removed from the game due to her injuries.

So, after all of that, here's the question.......

I don't dispute that the tag resulted in an out. However, once the out was recorded, excessive force seemed to come into play. In a one-on-one conversation (not heated) after completion of the game, the umpire informs me that there is no ASA rule regarding defensive contact of this nature. Is he correct? Were there mistakes made on this play? Why would I have not been included in the conference?

As a side note, we did complete and win the game, so it's not an appelate situation.

Thoughts? Comments?

[SC Ump]

If the play is, as I suspect, a case where the 8U base runner was tagged a bit hard, started crying and a bit embarrassed to go back in the game, it seems okay to me. I suspect that the umpire talked with the other coach about perhaps teaching the player how to more appropriately apply a tag. In 8U there is a lot of teaching to be done. (Bless all the coaches and umpires that choose to assist at this level.) I hope you were able to take the time to genuinely console the little girl tagged and to have not focus on vengeance.

If however, this was some kind of malicious two-handed karate chop being thrown by the defensive player, I think the ruling was not harsh enough.

[NCASAUmp]

If we were talking 18U, then I might consider tossing the player. But 8U should not be held to the same standard. Most of those kids are just barely learning the basics, and they don't fully realize just what kind of damage they can cause.

I seriously doubt the contact was malicious in nature. I chalk it up to a young, inexperienced player who's just trying her best to make a play and nothing more.

I also think the umpire was well within his/her rights to pull their coach aside and (most probably) tell them that they need to spend a little more time working on properly making a tag. Some will see this as going beyond the duties of an umpire, but I see it as preventative umpiring. I don't want to have to throw someone out, nor do I want coaches/parents getting involved in what should be a coaching matter for the other team.

[Gulf Coast Blue]

Originally Posted by aflacduck31

Hi all - new to the forum.

I coach an 8u team that is coach pitch. We played our first game Saturday and a play occurred that I was curious about.

With 1 out and runners on 1st (r2) and 2nd (r1), batter (b1) hits a ball through the left side of the infield. R2 touches third and heads home on the play as the ball returns to the infield. The defensive third baseman retrieves the ball near the circle and runs down the runner attempting to score.

The defensive player applies the tag to the runner (before she reaches home plate) from behind to the runners left shoulder. The tag is applied with both arms bent in some semblance of a "praying" motion. Once the tag is applied, the fielder extends both arms, shoving the runner to the ground.

The umpire makes no immediate call, but calls the opposing coach to the field for a conference that does not include me. When he returns to the plate and indicates ready for play, he informs me that the out stands. The tagged baserunner has to be removed from the game due to her injuries.

So, after all of that, here's the question.......

I don't dispute that the tag resulted in an out. However, once the out was recorded, excessive force seemed to come into play. In a one-on-one conversation (not heated) after completion of the game, the umpire informs me that there is no ASA rule regarding defensive contact of this nature. Is he correct? Were there mistakes made on this play? Why would I have not been included in the conference?

As a side note, we did complete and win the game, so it's not an appelate situation.

Thoughts? Comments?

Nine times out of ten a girl tagged from behind in anything under 10U is going down hard.

Seen it a million times.

Just one of those things you will need to learn to live with.

Joel

[CajunNewBlue]

removed due to her injuries?... huh?

[Gulf Coast Blue]

Originally Posted by aflacduck31

Hi all - new to the forum.

I coach an 8u team that is coach pitch. We played our first game Saturday and a play occurred that I was curious about.

With 1 out and runners on 1st (r2) and 2nd (r1), batter (b1) hits a ball through the left side of the infield. R2 touches third and heads home on the play as the ball returns to the infield. The defensive third baseman retrieves the ball near the circle and runs down the runner attempting to score.

The defensive player applies the tag to the runner (before she reaches home plate) from behind to the runners left shoulder. The tag is applied with both arms bent in some semblance of a "praying" motion. Once the tag is applied, the fielder extends both arms, shoving the runner to the ground.

The umpire makes no immediate call, but calls the opposing coach to the field for a conference that does not include me. When he returns to the plate and indicates ready for play, he informs me that the out stands. The tagged baserunner has to be removed from the game due to her injuries.

So, after all of that, here's the question.......

I don't dispute that the tag resulted in an out. However, once the out was recorded, excessive force seemed to come into play. In a one-on-one conversation (not heated) after completion of the game, the umpire informs me that there is no ASA rule regarding defensive contact of this nature. Is he correct? Were there mistakes made on this play? Why would I have not been included in the conference?

As a side note, we did complete and win the game, so it's not an appelate situation.

Thoughts? Comments?

One other thing......teach your kids to throw and catch the ball........a thrown ball is more likely to beat a runner than a fielder trying to chase them down. As I stated earlier.......9 times out of 10.....bad things happen on a tag from behind. You can bet that the fielder felt horrible about the other girl getting hurt on the fall.

The 7U division started in Tx in 1987. It was later split into 6U and 8U in 1994 as prior to that......8 year olds regularly played in the 10U division.

Over the last 25 years, I have seen the quality of play in the 8U division increase to pretty impressive standards. I coached kids in this age group for a combined total of 10 years (three daughters starting in 92). The best teams always had the best fundamentals......not just hitting the ball.

Keep it fun......but teach the girls the best fielding and throwing fundamentals you can.

Joel