WCWS and Flex entry

[Jake26]

Did I miss something in Game 1 of the Championship Series?

In the bottom of the second inning last night, the plate umpire allowed Alabama to enter their Flex player, Danae Hays, to run for Jackie Traina, the Alabama pitcher, after she led off the inning with a walk. (This is about the 40:30 mark of the ESPN3 replay.) This is clearly illegal, Amanda Locke being the DP for Alabama in the game.

In the top of the second, the plate umpire *had* properly allowed the entry of Oklahoma's Flex to run for their DP. This can be seen about the 28:00 mark of the ESPN3 replay.

Surely I am missing something.

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally Posted by Jake26

Did I miss something in Game 1 of the Championship Series?

In the bottom of the second inning last night, the plate umpire allowed Alabama to enter their Flex player, Danae Hays, to run for Jackie Traina, the Alabama pitcher, after she led off the inning with a walk. (This is about the 40:30 mark of the ESPN3 replay.) This is clearly illegal, Amanda Locke being the DP for Alabama in the game.

Surely I am missing something.

Nope, Gametracker Box Score and Play-by-Play show it exactly as you stated.

[KJUmp]

Game Summary/Play by Play for Game 1 has the change exactly as you describe it.

Trying to figure out if I'm missing something here, because I can't see how Murphy could have done that change legally....and I just went to the rule book.
I'm sure that I'm missing something obvious but can't see what it might be.

OK...somebody help me out.

[KJUmp]

So do we have a situation that another esteemed member of the Forum would refer to as FUBAR?

Steve...you out there??

Jake26....good catch.

[clev1967]

I am betting on the actual line up card, Locke was listed as P and Traina as the DP which would have made the move legal.

[Jake26]

Originally Posted by clev1967

I am betting on the actual line up card, Locke was listed as P and Traina as the DP which would have made the move legal.

Hmm, I think you are right. GT has Traina as the P and Locke as the DP, but that may reflect the "game conditions" and not the actual lineup that was turned in. The defensive postion that ESPN ascribes to each batter as they come to the plate could easily be the same case, actual people on the field rather than the lineup card.

In fact, the more I think about it, this has to be the answer. Case solved.

[KJUmp]

Originally Posted by Jake26

Hmm, I think you are right. GT has Traina as the P and Locke as the DP, but that may reflect the "game conditions" and not the actual lineup that was turned in. The defensive postion that ESPN ascribes to each batter as they come to the plate could easily be the same case, actual people on the field rather than the lineup card.

In fact, the more I think about it, this has to be the answer. Case solved.

Yep it is.
8.2.6.3, I just couldn't see the forest through the trees last night when I was looking through the rule book.
The lineup was presented as we saw it on Game Track, Murphy (in all likelihood) made the change during the pre-game meeting at HP, after the PU accepted the lineups as official and asked both HC's if they had any changes at this time. PU recorded & reported the change, but we don't see the 'transaction' it on Game Track.

Thanks for opening my eyes.

[Andy]

Makes sense and that is what had to have happened.

I can't see the umpires at this level overlooking something like that.

We have a local JUCO coach that uses this same strategy....good hitting pitcher listed as DP on the lineup, then at the pregame, indicates that the DP is going to pitch.

[Jake26]

Originally Posted by Andy

Makes sense and that is what had to have happened.

I can't see the umpires at this level overlooking something like that.

We have a local JUCO coach that uses this same strategy....good hitting pitcher listed as DP on the lineup, then at the pregame, indicates that the DP is going to pitch.

Be careful, Andy. The scenario I believe you are describing is not quite what happened at the WCWS.

Since the DP can play any defensive postion and no substitutions are involved unless the Flex is no longer playing defense, Coach Murphy only has to report to the PU that the DP (Traina) is going to pitch, and his P (Locke) is going to play offense only - a reporting required because there are position changes involved. This approach gives him a "free" pinch runner when he uses the Flex to substitute for a DP that is on base, Traina in this case. He can only run for her once, but he does not have to use one of his stable of pinch-runners from the bench.

In the scenario you described (I think), the strong-hitting pitcher is listed as the DP and the weak-hitting pitcher is listed as the Flex. After the lineups are official, the DP substitutes for the Flex and pitches. Then if she gets lit up, the coach can reenter his Flex and keep the strong bat in the lineup.

Sorry if I misread your scenario, and probably too much information anyway.

[DaveASA/FED]

Originally Posted by Jake26

Be careful, Andy. The scenario I believe you are describing is not quite what happened at the WCWS.

Since the DP can play any defensive postion and no substitutions are involved unless the Flex is no longer playing defense, Coach Murphy only has to report to the PU that the DP (Traina) is going to pitch, and his P (Locke) is going to play offense only - a reporting required because there are position changes involved. This approach gives him a "free" pinch runner when he uses the Flex to substitute for a DP that is on base, Traina in this case. He can only run for her once, but he does not have to use one of his stable of pinch-runners from the bench.

In the scenario you described (I think), the strong-hitting pitcher is listed as the DP and the weak-hitting pitcher is listed as the Flex. After the lineups are official, the DP substitutes for the Flex and pitches. Then if she gets lit up, the coach can reenter his Flex and keep the strong bat in the lineup.

Sorry if I misread your scenario, and probably too much information anyway.

NOt sure why you would want to do this, run the FLEX for the DP, since the DP is listed as the pitcher she can have a courtesy runner and there is NO substitutes (or the DP leaving the game with only one reentry). THis is assuming the CR rules is the same in NCAA.

[Andy]

Originally Posted by Jake26

Be careful, Andy. The scenario I believe you are describing is not quite what happened at the WCWS.

Since the DP can play any defensive postion and no substitutions are involved unless the Flex is no longer playing defense, Coach Murphy only has to report to the PU that the DP (Traina) is going to pitch, and his P (Locke) is going to play offense only - a reporting required because there are position changes involved. This approach gives him a "free" pinch runner when he uses the Flex to substitute for a DP that is on base, Traina in this case. He can only run for her once, but he does not have to use one of his stable of pinch-runners from the bench.

In the scenario you described (I think), the strong-hitting pitcher is listed as the DP and the weak-hitting pitcher is listed as the Flex. After the lineups are official, the DP substitutes for the Flex and pitches. Then if she gets lit up, the coach can reenter his Flex and keep the strong bat in the lineup.

Sorry if I misread your scenario, and probably too much information anyway.

Jake...didn't mention anything about the FLEX being a second pitcher in my post. Coach does exactly what Alabama coach did...defensive change of DP to pitch, listed pitcher will hit only, FLEX is listed at another defensive position.

[Andy]

Originally Posted by DaveASA/FED

NOt sure why you would want to do this, run the FLEX for the DP, since the DP is listed as the pitcher she can have a courtesy runner and there is NO substitutes (or the DP leaving the game with only one reentry). THis is assuming the CR rules is the same in NCAA.

That's what you get for assuming...NCAA rules do not allow for a courtesy runner.....

[DaveASA/FED]

Originally Posted by Andy

That's what you get for assuming...NCAA rules do not allow for a courtesy runner.....

Wouldn't be the first time I have made an a$$ out of myself huh??? See that's why I only do ASA and FED ball!!

[Jake26]

Originally Posted by DaveASA/FED

NOt sure why you would want to do this, run the FLEX for the DP, since the DP is listed as the pitcher she can have a courtesy runner and there is NO substitutes (or the DP leaving the game with only one reentry). THis is assuming the CR rules is the same in NCAA.

Oops, already noted. Text deleted by poster.

[Jake26]

Originally Posted by Andy

Jake...didn't mention anything about the FLEX being a second pitcher in my post. Coach does exactly what Alabama coach did...defensive change of DP to pitch, listed pitcher will hit only, FLEX is listed at another defensive position.

Thanks for heading me in the right direction. There a couple of coaches in my area who will do as I described, so I wondered if you were speaking of the same thing.