Now Flake ASA Softball happenings...

[bd41flpk]

Just wrapped up another fun-filled season of ASA Snow Flake softball and had some quite the interesting occurrences. Can some of you folks please comment on these rulings or lack thereof?

ASA - 6-10' arc: (1) Pitcher 1st presents ball and then 'slowly' and I do mean slowly brings his arm back and follows thru (without any hesitation) and makes the pitch. RULING: Legal since the motion was continuous even thought it was slow. Players also thought that each pitch must contain the 'same' consistent cadence/motion for a consistency pace. I did not see the 'consistent' mention in the ASA rules, so thought this was also legal. (2) Same pitcher at one point during a pitch, dropped his glove during the delivery. I assumed that this was a legal pitch if this was construed as 'un-intentional'. However, once a 2nd occurrence occurred, it could be construed as 'intentional' and ruled as an illegal pitch?

OBS: R1 on 3rd when B/R hits a ground ball to 2nd. F4 throws to F5 who now has R1 off of 3rd in a run-down. As the ball is thrown to each of the fielders to catch R1, F6 is in the base-path of R1 (yet no contact) which makes R1 veer to the right and R1 is then tagged out by F6 on the way back to 3rd base. RULING: Call OBS on F6 and award R1 3rd base since this was where R1 was headed?

Comments and rule references are welcome.

[Linknblue]

I'm think'n ur good on both calls. Nothing in rules says anything about speed of pitching motion that I've ever heard of..............but, can it be construed as "deception"? Some would say so I'm sure.

Glove falling off......let it go first time but second time it's illegal.....

When rundowns are taught to players the defense stays to the outside so they don't hit the runner with the ball when throwing it back and forth. If "ball-less" defense got in way of runner trying get to base...........obstruction, pure and simple.

[NCASAUmp]

Originally Posted by bd41flpk

Just wrapped up another fun-filled season of ASA Snow Flake softball and had some quite the interesting occurrences. Can some of you folks please comment on these rulings or lack thereof?

ASA - 6-10' arc: (1) Pitcher 1st presents ball and then 'slowly' and I do mean slowly brings his arm back and follows thru (without any hesitation) and makes the pitch. RULING: Legal since the motion was continuous even thought it was slow. Players also thought that each pitch must contain the 'same' consistent cadence/motion for a consistency pace. I did not see the 'consistent' mention in the ASA rules, so thought this was also legal. (2) Same pitcher at one point during a pitch, dropped his glove during the delivery. I assumed that this was a legal pitch if this was construed as 'un-intentional'. However, once a 2nd occurrence occurred, it could be construed as 'intentional' and ruled as an illegal pitch?

OBS: R1 on 3rd when B/R hits a ground ball to 2nd. F4 throws to F5 who now has R1 off of 3rd in a run-down. As the ball is thrown to each of the fielders to catch R1, F6 is in the base-path of R1 (yet no contact) which makes R1 veer to the right and R1 is then tagged out by F6 on the way back to 3rd base. RULING: Call OBS on F6 and award R1 3rd base since this was where R1 was headed?

Comments and rule references are welcome.

I'm with you on all rulings except the one regarding the pitcher dropping his/her glove. I don't know if I would consider the simple act of dropping one's glove to be an intentional act that is meant to distract the batter. Unsafe? Certainly. Distracting? Maybe. I'm on the fence here. Depends on how they did it, and I'd probably have to see it. I don't think I'd call it unless it was quite clearly meant to distract the batter, as the penalty for that rule is quite severe: ejection!

In other words, I'd want to be damn certain that that was his intent.

Otherwise, these rulings were all correct.

[NCASAUmp]

Originally Posted by Linknblue

I'm think'n ur good on both calls. Nothing in rules says anything about speed of pitching motion that I've ever heard of..............but, can it be construed as "deception"? Some would say so I'm sure.

And what, pray tell, is the rule regarding deception?

[CecilOne]

Originally Posted by bd41flpk

OBS: R1 on 3rd when B/R hits a ground ball to 2nd. F4 throws to F5 who now has R1 off of 3rd in a run-down. As the ball is thrown to each of the fielders to catch R1, F6 is in the base-path of R1 (yet no contact) which makes R1 veer to the right and R1 is then tagged out by F6 on the way back to 3rd base. RULING: Call OBS on F6 and award R1 3rd base since this was where R1 was headed?

Not because of where R1 was headed, but the base R1 would have obtained with no obstruction, ITUJ of course. Apparently no difference in this case, but for other cases and quoting the rule.

[DeputyUICHousto]

Originally Posted by NCASAUmp

And what, pray tell, is the rule regarding deception?

treble damages isn't it?

[NCASAUmp]

Originally Posted by DeputyUICHousto

treble damages isn't it?

5 yard penalty, still second down.

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally Posted by bd41flpk

ASA - 6-10' arc: (1) Pitcher 1st presents ball and then 'slowly' and I do mean slowly brings his arm back and follows thru (without any hesitation) and makes the pitch. RULING: Legal since the motion was continuous even thought it was slow. Players also thought that each pitch must contain the 'same' consistent cadence/motion for a consistency pace. I did not see the 'consistent' mention in the ASA rules, so thought this was also legal. (2) Same pitcher at one point during a pitch, dropped his glove during the delivery. I assumed that this was a legal pitch if this was construed as 'un-intentional'. However, once a 2nd occurrence occurred, it could be construed as 'intentional' and ruled as an illegal pitch?

If you ruled the dropping of the glove was a deliberate act of unsportsmanlike conduct, it could be called in IP. However, if you do, you must then eject the pitcher.

OBS: R1 on 3rd when B/R hits a ground ball to 2nd. F4 throws to F5 who now has R1 off of 3rd in a run-down. As the ball is thrown to each of the fielders to catch R1, F6 is in the base-path of R1 (yet no contact) which makes R1 veer to the right and R1 is then tagged out by F6 on the way back to 3rd base. RULING: Call OBS on F6 and award R1 3rd base since this was where R1 was headed?

That would make sense if that is the base R1 would have reached safely had there been no OBS.

[bd41flpk]

Crew - thanks much for the responses and valdiation of the rules. Especially around the OBS description that describes what base R1 would be awarded 'if the OBS did not occur'.

Can anyone please point out the rule for the IP call for the dropped glove which would result in an 'ejection'?

[NCASAUmp]

Originally Posted by bd41flpk

Crew - thanks much for the responses and valdiation of the rules. Especially around the OBS description that describes what base R1 would be awarded 'if the OBS did not occur'.

Can anyone please point out the rule for the IP call for the dropped glove which would result in an 'ejection'?

Certainly. It's ASA 6-4-B.

A fielder shall not take a position in the batter's line of vision or, with deliberate unsportsmanlike intent, act in a manner to distract the batter. A pitch does not have to be released.
EFFECT: The offending player shall be ejected from the game.

[Linknblue]

Deception = distraction = IP or unsportsmanlike

[NCASAUmp]

Originally Posted by Linknblue

Deception = distraction = IP or unsportsmanlike

So you're saying it's illegal to slowly pitch a ball... in slow pitch?

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally Posted by Linknblue

Deception = distraction = IP or unsportsmanlike

And you wonder why people complain about umpires.

"Deception" has absolutely NOTHING to do with this rule. Then again, there is no deception involved. What's the pitcher doing, deceiving the batter by putting the glove where he thinks the ball is going?

[MD Longhorn]

Originally Posted by Linknblue

Deception = distraction = IP or unsportsmanlike

Huh? Can't find that in my book.

[Linknblue]

C'mon guys! Dropping glove 1st time = warning. Don't do it again. Maybe call IP because of distraction/deception attempt. Dropping glove 2nd time after warning............gone!!!