Dislodged base

[greymule]

Yesterday, in a modified-pitch game, PU made the following call at 3B. I was BU, and with another runner going into 2B, this was PU's call. However, when the throw went to 3B, I ran over anyway and got a good look.

As a runner slid safely into 3B, he managed to jab the toe of his right shoe into the center of the top of the base. With his slide, his foot dragged the base (not spiked down) a little more than a base width, so that it lay in foul territory a few inches from the line. The runner kept his foot nailed to the middle of the base and did not try to advance in any way. No part of his body was where the base had been originally. F5 tagged the runner, and PU called him out.

Naturally, the offense screamed, but PU ruled that the runner had in fact overslid the base—that his foot was not where the base had properly been.

I'd have called that safe, since he kept his foot on the base and didn't try to advance. I think that had it not been a movable base, he would not have overslid. But a reading of the ASA book makes me wonder about that play. What if the runner and his slide had carried the base five feet across the foul line? What if the base had been spiked down and the runner's foot had simply spun it into foul territory, still attached to the spike? What if the slide had kicked the base five feet foul, and the runner had gone over and stood on it, making no attempt to advance?

Finally, what does the ASA book mean in 8-9-N by "The runner is not out . . . when the runner slides into a base and dislodges it from its proper position. The base is considered to have followed the runner."

[Dakota]

It means just what it says. Unless the runner makes an attempt to advance further, where ever the runner ends up, that is where the base is for out/safe purposes.

This runner, as you described the play, should have been ruled safe.

In other words, it is not possible for a runner to overslide a dislodged base.

[Tap]

The base runner is safe in the above situation.

To remain safe from being tagged out, he either must stay with the dislodged base or stay where the base was before it was dislodged. In either option, to remain protected he cannot attempt to advance further (or, for that matter, attempt to retreat to the prior base).

[Dakota]

Originally posted by Tap
To remain safe from being tagged out, he either must stay with the dislodged base or stay where the base was before it was dislodged.

Speaking ASA, for the case of a runner who slid into the base, I disagree with this statement. By rule, the base goes where the runner goes as long as he does not try to advance.

[Tap]

I think Dakota is correct in ASA, specifically Rule 8-9-N. Since I do more USSSA, I must have been thinking of the USSSA Rule 8, Sec. 12 states, in part:

"If a runner sliding into a base is adjudged to be safe by the Umpire before dislodging the base, he remains safe by either staying at the position the base is supposed to occupy, or by remaining in contact with the base, The runner puts himself in jeopardy, when he attempts to advance to the next base, if he then tries to return to the misplaced base, it is entirely within the Umpire's jurisdiction to declare the runner safe, or out, if he is tagged with the ball." [typos in original]

Even under that rule, which is poorly written (and poorly punctuated), after looking at it again and for common sense reasons, I would not call a runner out unless he attempted to advance to the next base (or go all the way back to the prior base). The USSSA rule arguably leaves a gap for where the base runner does not attempt to leave the base, but somehow ends up between the dislodged base and the peg where it used to be. Given that ambiguity, I would give the runner the benefit of the doubt if he made no attempt to leave the base.

I think the ASA rule is better written and makes more sense and I agree with Dakota.

[Edited by Tap on Oct 8th, 2002 at 07:59 AM]

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally posted by Dakota

Speaking ASA, for the case of a runner who slid into the base, I disagree with this statement. By rule, the base goes where the runner goes as long as he does not try to advance.

I agree with the dislodged base following a sliding runner. However, even though the rule book uses the word "advance", I don't think it should be taken too literally.

What would you do if for some unknown reason (remember, softball players) the runner decides to retreat to the previous base? I doubt you would protect the runner because s/he wasn't "advancing" to the next base.

Of course, you can also interpret the wording of 8.3.C.Effect: ("The ball is in play and runners may advance or return with liability to be put out.") to mean that if a runner is returning, they have placed themselves into jeopardy.

[Dakota]

Originally posted by IRISHMAFIA
However, even though the rule book uses the word "advance", I don't think it should be taken too literally.

What would you do if for some unknown reason (remember, softball players) the runner decides to retreat to the previous base? I doubt you would protect the runner because s/he wasn't "advancing" to the next base.

Of course, you can also interpret the wording of 8.3.C.Effect: ("The ball is in play and runners may advance or return with liability to be put out.") to mean that if a runner is returning, they have placed themselves into jeopardy.

I agree, Mike. If the runner tries to retreat, he has placed himself in jeopardy. But if the runner is just getting up & dusting off or milling about waiting for someone to call time, or scrambling to try to get to the dislodged base, he is protected.

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally posted by Dakota

I agree, Mike. If the runner tries to retreat, he has placed himself in jeopardy. But if the runner is just getting up & dusting off or milling about waiting for someone to call time, or scrambling to try to get to the dislodged base, he is protected.

I had one of these a couple of years ago. R1 comes into 3B standing up and trying to use the bag as a brake. The bag kicked out and landed about 8 feet away as the runner ended up flat on his back.

He jumped up, looked for the ball and took about three steps towards home and then thought better of it when an infielder received the ball from the outfield, checked him then the runner rounding first. However, instead of returning to the base, he stood about 15 feet from 3B, dusting himself off while talking to the on-deck batter. The infielder threw it to F2 who walked up and tagged R1.

As far as I'm concerned, the moment he decided to voluntarily leave the area of the base and it's original spot, he placed himself in jeopardy. The defense's action with the ball was continuous, so the play was never killed. I ruled the runner out.

A dislodged base is not a "get out of jail free" card which allows an active runner to do anything they want during a live ball without liability to be put out.