ASA Senior Ball - Second Plate

[IRISHMAFIA]

Runners on 2B & 3B, no outs.

Line drive to the outfield drops for a hit. R2 is was moving on contact while R1 hesitated to to make sure ball wasn't caught. F8 is up quickly with the ball and throwing home.

R2 catches R1 just as they both cross the commitment line, but the throw beats both as the catcher receives the ball while touching the original plate prior to either runner touching the second plate.

Is your call:

1) Both are out
2) R1 ruled out, R2 scores
3) No outs since neither runner was tagged
4) Huh? What do you mean there are two home plates?

[JefferMC]

Sure looks like (1), both are out.

But Irish wouldn't have posted it if it were that simple. What did I miss?

[CecilOne]

The key is that both passed the commitment line.

[Dakota]

Personally, my answer is 4.

[SergioJ]

Okay, I'll take a long-shot at this.

Since both runners passed the commitment line, and since the second home plate replaces the "tagging" of the runner, I vote for #1, double play. My thinking (huh?) is that this would be the equivalent to two runners coming in to home plate and the catcher tags both runners prior to either of them touching home plate.

Now Mike, I'm hoping that since you only gave us 4 choices, the answer is one of them and not a 5th choice that you left out. Or is the 5th choice R2 not only "caught up" with R1, but also passed him?


Serg

[celebur]

Originally Posted by SergioJ

Or is the 5th choice R2 not only "caught up" with R1, but also passed him?

There would still be two outs though--R2 out for passing, R1 out on the commitment play.

Around my neck of the woods, I only see two home plates in a variant of slo-pitch where the catcher must play the original plate and the runner(s) must go for the second plate. In effect, the second plate acts as the scoring line (safe line) in coed slo-pitch.

[Skahtboi]

Originally Posted by Dakota

Personally, my answer is 4.

That was the one I was going with!

[IRISHMAFIA]

From NUS staff:

The ruling should be that both the runners are out.

The catcher should thoretically touch his home plate twice to retire those runners, however, if he kept his foot in contact with the plate for a reasonable amount of time, both runners should be declared out.

The 2nd home plate was designed to protect the runners and the catcher from any collision situations. Rule 8, Section 9D covers the use of the 2nd Home plate. Letter #6 states that once he passes the committment line he cannot return. If he goes back he is out, and if the catcher's tag of his home plate beats the runner reaching the 2nd home plate, that runner is also out. The description in your play fits in with the above.

[Dakota]

Originally Posted by IRISHMAFIA

From NUS staff:

The ruling should be that both the runners are out.

The catcher should thoretically touch his home plate twice to retire those runners, however, if he kept his foot in contact with the plate for a reasonable amount of time, both runners should be declared out.

The 2nd home plate was designed to protect the runners and the catcher from any collision situations. Rule 8, Section 9D covers the use of the 2nd Home plate. Letter #6 states that once he passes the committment line he cannot return. If he goes back he is out, and if the catcher's tag of his home plate beats the runner reaching the 2nd home plate, that runner is also out. The description in your play fits in with the above.

So, if he just did a quick stab of home plate or runs across it only the first runner is out?

[NCASAUmp]

Originally Posted by Dakota

So, if he just did a quick stab of home plate or runs across it only the first runner is out?

I had troubles with that as well. I mean, as a parallel, if you had two runners side-by-side, you could conceivably tag both of them with your glove at the same time and have both of them out. You shouldn't need to do two separate steps to get the outs at HP.

To me, the rule is clear: if both runners have passed the commitment line, they're both called out when the defensive player has the ball and touches home plate. There should be no other required action by the defense.

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally Posted by Dakota

So, if he just did a quick stab of home plate or runs across it only the first runner is out?

Are you going to call it that way?

I'm not. I agree that the play should apply to all runners. Don't like the use of the second plate, but if that is what these folks want, they need to live with the rule.