Your chance to wipe out a bad mechanic

[topper]

Originally Posted by IRISHMAFIA

Inside so I'm not making a call from behind the play. I don't know about you, but I don't have a problem staying out of possible throwing lanes and still be set up to see a throw, tag and play; And in position to easily take the runner to 3rd should there be a misplay at 2B.

How is the back side 90 behind the play? Where do you make a call from on a steal of 2nd?

I don't know about you IRISH, but from the C slot with a runner on 2nd, on a base hit, I'm busting it over to pick up the BR as he/she rounds 1st. So, are you saying that you can be inside, following the runner to 2nd, seeing the play at home and the throw back to 2nd, moving to the SS side of 2nd to get the best view of the play while staying out of the throwing lane? Please.

Of course, the only way I could see all of this take place from the field is by being outside to begin with. I thought the we were talking about which position was more advantageous to keeping things in front of us. Right?

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally Posted by topper

How is the back side 90 behind the play? Where do you make a call from on a steal of 2nd?

Often from directly behind 2B, since the 90 across the front of the base isn't always, in sme areas rarely, the location of the tag. But I would always prefer to have an inside look at a tag play than have to make a call from the backside where you may not actually see a tag or lose a dropped ball.

I don't know about you IRISH, but from the C slot with a runner on 2nd, on a base hit, I'm busting it over to pick up the BR as he/she rounds 1st. So, are you saying that you can be inside, following the runner to 2nd, seeing the play at home and the throw back to 2nd, moving to the SS side of 2nd to get the best view of the play while staying out of the throwing lane? Please.

Hell, that's easy. Why do you think you have to "bust" inside. Once SS clears, I simply move just inside the diamond, watch the BR touch 1st and am set to follow that player into 2B and almost be in a 90 looking across the front of the base and on the same side as the ball and player making a tag. If a throw is coming from the OF, I'm right there. If the throw is coming from 3B, I'm inside the diamond out of the throwing lane. If the throw is coming from home, I'm still to the catcher's left and she has a clear throwing lane.

Of course, the only way I could see all of this take place from the field is by being outside to begin with. I thought the we were talking about which position was more advantageous to keeping things in front of us. Right?

I disagree. Being on the outside of a play is no more advantageous since it will often place the runner between the umpire and the ball.

But lets talk about keeping everything in front of you. IMO, this really isn't going to happen in any more cases from the outside than from the inside. Why are people worried about keeping a ball rolling to the fence in front of you. Big deal, you turn your head to watch the BR hit 1B, you have to do that from the outside, also, unless you are working in foul territory and, unless you are in a 3-umpire format and preparing to rotate home, you shouldn't be there on a ball to the OF.

I have no problem with qualified umpires working the system when the situation fits. I do have a problem with people who act like this is some type of super-mechanic that is the greatest thing since sliced bread.

[topper]

Originally Posted by IRISHMAFIA

Hell, that's easy. Why do you think you have to "bust" inside. Once SS clears, I simply move just inside the diamond, watch the BR touch 1st and am set to follow that player into 2B and almost be in a 90 looking across the front of the base and on the same side as the ball and player making a tag. If a throw is coming from the OF, I'm right there. If the throw is coming from 3B, I'm inside the diamond out of the throwing lane. If the throw is coming from home, I'm still to the catcher's left and she has a clear throwing lane..

So if the BR doesn't go to 2nd, you are standing there "just inside the diomand" making a call on any play at 1st from 60' away?

Originally Posted by IRISHMAFIA

I have no problem with qualified umpires working the system when the situation fits. I do have a problem with people who act like this is some type of super-mechanic that is the greatest thing since sliced bread.

Working the system when the situation fits is what makes an umpire. It's a shame ASA doesn't feel the same way. I'm pleasantly surprised to see you off the reservation.

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally Posted by topper

So if the BR doesn't go to 2nd, you are standing there "just inside the diomand" making a call on any play at 1st from 60' away?

Here we go again. You offer a scenario, someone responds to that scenario and you want to change it to show it doesn't fit your snake oil sales pitch. You really should be ashamed of yourself.

Again, the diamond isn't that big. If there was a possible play at 1B, I would adjust for that situation.

Working the system when the situation fits is what makes an umpire. It's a shame ASA doesn't feel the same way. I'm pleasantly surprised to see you off the reservation.

I'm nowhere I haven't been in my 44 years in blue.

Originally Posted by strawman

So you teach them a inferior method and turn them loose, never to be heard from again. Great plan.

No too smart, are ya? Where was that mentioned? BTW, have you ever had the job of recruiting and training umpires for local and state play? I mean really train them, run a school and multiple clinics just to work the local league games? Are you aware that quite a few don't want the advanced training and many just will not attend clinics. So, do you suggest we have multiple sets of mechanics for different levels of competition? To quote my buddy, Andrew Sheppard, "how's the view from the cheap seats?"

Throw back to 3rd? You'll have to explain where you got thiat from.

No, I don't. Don't think it was that hard to understand. After all, Wang got it.

I guess the majority of college officials are lazy for recognizing the benefit of staying outside in certain situations. Thank goodness the rumor about an NCAA/ASA relationship was just that. I would hate to have a gaggle of ASA SP geese decide what mechanics are used to determine my readiness for my next post-season assignment.

Really? Again, you read things that are not there and cannot comprehend some of the simple things that are. Well, I'm not a fan of seafood, especially red herring.

Before I wrap this one up, let me just state that there is nothing wrong with the I/O mechanics. Most 3rd graders could easily pick it up with some of the training provided, it isn't hard and does not put any umpire in a more precarious position on the field than any other method regardless of level of play.

Say hi to Major Tom the next time you see him floating around out there.

[topper]

Originally Posted by IRISHMAFIA

Here we go again.

Exactly.

Disagree with the almighty IRISHMAFIA too much or question the greatness of his beloved organization, and he, invariably, will resort to personal insults and questioning your intelligence.

I'm a bit surprised. By this time he normally has called someone Bubba.

[wadeintothem]

It has nothing to do with legs.

In a 3 man championship play system, there is absolutely no reason or advantage for 1B to come inside the circle on balls hit to center or left. The only thing that can happen is once that ball is immediately in, you could lose the ball... with worst case being - the umpire is in the line of fire... or "dancing" with players because you are in the way.

There is no reason at all for rabbit to bust inside on most plays. From the line or the rim, they have ideal positioning to work most plays from outside.

The ball IS coming back. ASA insist on jumping in, then jumping back out. This is unnecessary movement that causes balls to be lost by the BU, umpires to be caught in no mans land and umpires to find themselves in throwing lanes.

Personally, I would agree that rimming would not be appropriate in a two umpire system. I think that simply alleviates all together the concerns rimming brings up with "missing umpires"... for example .. if you rim on an obvious hit.. but it gets screwed up (bobbled, whatever), you can find yourself chasing a runner to two or even 3. Thats not a problem in 3 man IMO.

The book is for championship play and ASA is ready to build on their 3 man systems, I think. That is what I see by the crews I've been working with anyway. ASA works championship 3 man like its 2 man with an extra umpire instead of taking advantage of the system.

[MD Longhorn]

Originally Posted by topper

So if the BR doesn't go to 2nd, you are standing there "just inside the diomand" making a call on any play at 1st from 60' away?

Absolutely. What's the problem? You have the perfect angle - distance is overrated.

[topper]

Originally Posted by topper
So if the BR doesn't go to 2nd, you are standing there "just inside the diomand" making a call on any play at 1st from 60' away?

Originally Posted by mbcrowder

Absolutely. What's the problem? You have the perfect angle - distance is overrated.

Please explain how being just inside and on the SS side of 2B to make a call on a tag play at 2B equals a perfect angle for a play on a runner returning to 1B.

Also, the "distance is overrated" mindset is not one that would be welcomed on the field with me as a partner or evaluator.

[MD Longhorn]

Originally Posted by topper

Please explain how being just inside and on the SS side of 2B to make a call on a tag play at 2B equals a perfect angle for a play on a runner returning to 1B.

Also, the "distance is overrated" mindset is not one that would be welcomed on the field with me as a partner or evaluator.

I realize at this point you're just being belligerent because you want to... but come on. Really? I don't think anyone implied that the umpire would remain stationary. That is a perfect spot to be. The ball will take you to the play, and you ARE allowed to move.

If you had to sacrifice one for the other, would you rather have perfect distance and imperfect angle, or imperfect distance and perfect angle.

Distance is overrated - I'm not advocating laziness, and I'm not saying it's unimportant. Just overrated. Angle is more important.

[topper]

Originally Posted by mbcrowder

I realize at this point you're just being belligerent because you want to... but come on. Really?
I don't think anyone implied that the umpire would remain stationary. That is a perfect spot to be. The ball will take you to the play, and you ARE allowed to move.

Originally Posted by topper
So if the BR doesn't go to 2nd, you are standing there "just inside the diomand" making a call on any play at 1st from 60' away?

As you can see, it was not just implied, it was stated.

It appears that riding IRISHMAFIA's coat tails has emboldened you to calling people belligerent. Look Mike, I don't know you (which says alot since we both live in the Houston area), but some of the phylosophies you ascribe to are seriously flawed and will hold you back if moving up is in your future plans.

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally Posted by mbcrowder

I realize at this point you're just being belligerent because you want to... but come on. Really? I don't think anyone implied that the umpire would remain stationary. That is a perfect spot to be. The ball will take you to the play, and you ARE allowed to move.

This is what many ASA-detractors misrepresent. ASA mechanics will put the umpire in the preferred/prescribed position to watch the play develop. Obviously, at that point the umpire can adjust his/her position as necessary as the play dictates.

Your damn right you are not only allowed to move, but encouraged if necessary as long as one does not place themselves in a precarious position for a subsequent play.

[KJUmp]

Originally Posted by topper

Please explain how being just inside and on the SS side of 2B to make a call on a tag play at 2B equals a perfect angle for a play on a runner returning to 1B.

Also, the "distance is overrated" mindset is not one that would be welcomed on the field with me as a partner or evaluator.

FP...C position, less than 2 outs, R1 on 2B, ground ball to F6 who fields it and comes up looking to start her throw to 1B after:

(1) looking R2 back to 2B
(2) "freezing" R2 who is a few steps off of 2B
(3) R2 has run by her enroute to 3B

What's the "mindest", the thought process, for the possible play at 1B, distance or angle?

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally Posted by KJUmp

FP...C position, less than 2 outs, R1 on 2B, ground ball to F6 who fields it and comes up looking to start her throw to 1B after:

(1) looking R2 back to 2B
(2) "freezing" R2 who is a few steps off of 2B
(3) R2 has run by her enroute to 3B

What's the "mindest", the thought process, for the possible play at 1B, distance or angle?

Look for the 4th dimension?

JUST KIDDING!!!

[topper]

Originally Posted by KJUmp

FP...C position, less than 2 outs, R1 on 2B, ground ball to F6 who fields it and comes up looking to start her throw to 1B after:

(1) looking R2 back to 2B
(2) "freezing" R2 who is a few steps off of 2B
(3) R2 has run by her enroute to 3B

What's the "mindest", the thought process, for the possible play at 1B, distance or angle?

Obviously you won't be able to improve your distance much. You will lose some angle for the play at 1st moving towards 2nd to improve both on a play there in situations 1 & 2. In 3, if R2 runs on the throw to 1st, he/she is no longer my responsibility. If there is no throw to 1st, I will stay with R2 to 3rd.

The mindset should always be both, but you take what the play gives you.