A "food for thought" play

[justcallmeblue]

I was at a friends party today and ran into a coach that I have umpired this season (talk about small worlds). We got to talking about his game the other night and he tells me this story (I am not the BU at this game)

12U - ASA Ruleset

They have a play called CHAOS. . .R1 on 1B. . .on a dropped 3rd strike to Batter, he has the batter break towards first. But the runner never intends to go to first, only to draw a throw. Most of the catchers at this level FORGET they dont have to throw down to first in this situation because there is no DTS. More times than not, the throw is made down to first and R1 basically "walks" to 2B. and usually no call made by umpire

Thats the basics of the story.

I told him that I would call INTERFERENCE. . .that if I believed that the BR BREAKING TO 1st is in an obvious (planned) attempt to distract the catcher and hinders her from making the play, it would be INTERFERENCE. Now, the "play," in my mind, would be a normal throw to second base or throwback to the pitcher.

SO I left the party and then thought to myself. . .Is R1 also out?? Interference preventing a proper play?

Your thoughts are appreciated as always

[derwil]

Common play here in Alabama at 10 - 16s. You've got nothing, except a runner at second and either one or two outs. If they're dumb enough to throw it over there, I'm dumb enough to let 'em.

[HugoTafurst]

I know of no official rules set that has interference on this..

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally Posted by justcallmeblue

I was at a friends party today and ran into a coach that I have umpired this season (talk about small worlds). We got to talking about his game the other night and he tells me this story (I am not the BU at this game)

12U - ASA Ruleset

They have a play called CHAOS. . .R1 on 1B. . .on a dropped 3rd strike to Batter, he has the batter break towards first. But the runner never intends to go to first, only to draw a throw. Most of the catchers at this level FORGET they dont have to throw down to first in this situation because there is no DTS. More times than not, the throw is made down to first and R1 basically "walks" to 2B. and usually no call made by umpire

Thats the basics of the story.

I told him that I would call INTERFERENCE. . .that if I believed that the BR BREAKING TO 1st is in an obvious (planned) attempt to distract the catcher and hinders her from making the play, it would be INTERFERENCE. Now, the "play," in my mind, would be a normal throw to second base or throwback to the pitcher.

SO I left the party and then thought to myself. . .Is R1 also out?? Interference preventing a proper play?

Your thoughts are appreciated as always

ASA specifically states that this is NOT interference.

[justcallmeblue]

Irish,
WHERE?? I have been looking thru the book, cant seem to find it. . .
Z

[Dakota]

Originally Posted by justcallmeblue

irish,
where?? I have been looking thru the book, cant seem to find it. . .
Z

8-7-p note.

[txtrooper]

How many outs? I will assume that you are referring to <2. I've got nothing, the catcher needs to know the game situation also.

[txump81]

Nothing here. Defense just needs to know the situation. As an umpire in this situation, I am verbalizing, Batter out and signalling during the break to 1B.

[MD Longhorn]

You've got nothing here. You DEFINITELY don't have two outs. I've seen batters drop the bat and jog to first on ball 3, while R1 jogs to 2nd. Also not illegal. (And as a note - same team tried that twice once and got thrown out at 2nd the 2nd time).

[illinoisbluezeb]

Originally Posted by justcallmeblue

12U - ASA Ruleset

They have a play called CHAOS. . .R1 on 1B. . .on a dropped 3rd strike to Batter, he has the batter break towards first. But the runner never intends to go to first, only to draw a throw. Most of the catchers at this level FORGET they dont have to throw down to first in this situation because there is no DTS. More times than not, the throw is made down to first and R1 basically "walks" to 2B. and usually no call made by umpire

Thats the basics of the story.

FYI or Trivia your choice.
Several years ago this play used to be a rules violation, thinking around 1995 or so. Was only for a few years then back to the old catcher should know the situation.

Penalty was all runners back to the base occupied at TOP, (time of pitch) unless they were running/stealing at TOP.
Reason: Unsporting

[Andy]

Originally Posted by txump81

Nothing here. Defense just needs to know the situation. As an umpire in this situation, I am verbalizing, Batter out and signalling during the break to 1B.

something to think about.....verbalizing that the batter is out could be construed as coaching the defense that a throw is not necessary. When some variation of this happens in one of my games, I wait until the "chaos" is over then announce that the batter is out if necessary.

[SRW]

Originally Posted by Andy

something to think about.....verbalizing that the batter is out could be construed as coaching the defense that a throw is not necessary.

I disagree. A simple "out!" bu the PU on this situation isn't any different than the BU making a simple "out! at 2B on a routine play, or any other "out!" we make. It doesn't "coach" anyone... it's doing our job.

[RadioBlue]

Originally Posted by SRW

I disagree. A simple "out!" bu the PU on this situation isn't any different than the BU making a simple "out! at 2B on a routine play, or any other "out!" we make. It doesn't "coach" anyone... it's doing our job.

+1

It's our job to communicate. It's not like you're telling the catcher not to throw, you're just communicating. IMO, this is NOT coaching.

[MD Longhorn]

Originally Posted by RadioBlue

+1

It's our job to communicate. It's not like you're telling the catcher not to throw, you're just communicating. IMO, this is NOT coaching.

Do you call the batter out on a regular strikeout? One where F2 caught the ball? If so, you're not following ASA mechanics. If not - then when you DO call batter out on the OP, you ARE coaching.

[PSUchem]

Originally Posted by mbcrowder

Do you call the batter out on a regular strikeout? One where F2 caught the ball? If so, you're not following ASA mechanics. If not - then when you DO call batter out on the OP, you ARE coaching.

And if it's a questionable dropped ball by the catcher on the strikeout, do you just stand there and let them guess the out? No, you communicate the out.