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Old Sat Jun 12, 2010, 07:02pm
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On an island

Interesting call today on a steal of 3rd base. Runner slid around the base and reached back. Fielder swiped the glove down, no visible contact with the reaching arm, but I heard the faintest sound when the glove pased the arm so I had an out. Not even sure the base coach heard that sound. I had never called a tag play on sound alone. Felt like I was on an island.
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Old Sat Jun 12, 2010, 10:18pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DTQ_Blue View Post
Interesting call today on a steal of 3rd base. Runner slid around the base and reached back. Fielder swiped the glove down, no visible contact with the reaching arm, but I heard the faintest sound when the glove pased the arm so I had an out. Not even sure the base coach heard that sound. I had never called a tag play on sound alone. Felt like I was on an island.
I don't know if it was a King and His Court joke or something Ron Luciano used but this reminds me of the ol', "Well, coach it was too fast for me to see but it sounded like a strike."
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Old Sat Jun 12, 2010, 10:51pm
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Originally Posted by SC Ump View Post
I don't know if it was a King and His Court joke or something Ron Luciano used but this reminds me of the ol', "Well, coach it was too fast for me to see but it sounded like a strike."
Pretty sure that was Ron Luciano!!!!
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Old Sun Jun 13, 2010, 10:01am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DTQ_Blue View Post
Interesting call today on a steal of 3rd base. Runner slid around the base and reached back. Fielder swiped the glove down, no visible contact with the reaching arm, but I heard the faintest sound when the glove pased the arm so I had an out. Not even sure the base coach heard that sound. I had never called a tag play on sound alone. Felt like I was on an island.

I don't want to sound like "The Grinch Who Stole Christmas" but one should not call what one cannot see. If you didn't see the fielder tag the runner before the runner made contact with the base then you cannot call the runner out.

MTD, Sr.
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Old Sun Jun 13, 2010, 10:58am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark T. DeNucci, Sr. View Post
I don't want to sound like "The Grinch Who Stole Christmas" but one should not call what one cannot see. If you didn't see the fielder tag the runner before the runner made contact with the base then you cannot call the runner out.

MTD, Sr.
Agreed. You have a tag if you see a tag. You may have heard wind resistance from the glove hitting air. Now, if the runner didn't make a stink, you got it right.
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Old Sun Jun 13, 2010, 11:26am
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Mark, There are other plays I call based on sound. Catcher's obstruction, I don't see the glove hit the bat, I hear it. Batter HBP when the ball only grazes the uniform. I've actually called that one once or twice. I don't see any difference, provided your brain, which is processing what you see and hear, tells you that the timing between the sound and the glove moving past the arm is exactly the same.
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Old Sun Jun 13, 2010, 01:29pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark T. DeNucci, Sr. View Post
I don't want to sound like "The Grinch Who Stole Christmas" but one should not call what one cannot see. If you didn't see the fielder tag the runner before the runner made contact with the base then you cannot call the runner out.

MTD, Sr.
If your on 1B and there is a high throw toward the plate side of 1B and F3 goes up to the throw and swings the glove down and to the rear. There is a loud thud, the BR acts is if there was a tag and F3 starts the ball around the horn, but YOU are going to call the BR safe because the tag was away from you and you couldn't jockey into a position to where you could actually see the tag.

This is a play that happens not that infrequently that it should not be addressed. This was my first play of my first NC game and I had 1B. It was the opening game, all the dignitaries were there for opening ceremonies along with three local TV affiliates with cameras capturing the first inning for their spot on that night's sports news. I was nervous as hell. Not of screwing up, but doing something stupid.

I came up with a point at the play, "on the tag" and a big overhand. I was lucky enough to recognize the situation and was able to adjust to the point of realizing the tag was possible, but I never really saw the glove touch the player or his uniform.

Another time in World Cup play, I'm U3, F5 (Great Britain) snagged a high throw and swiped at a diving Bahaman. It was a night game an the lights on Field 3 in Plant City aren't that great, and I didn't see a tag, but I did hear the "click" of the glove hitting the diving runner's shoe. There was not other possibility of hitting anything else and I rung up the runner, who without so much as a glance popped up and hustled to the dugout.

Have you ever determined a ball was NOT caught because you heard a double thump? Have you ever ruled a foul tip because you have "heard" the ball hit the bat and then the glove?

Point is you make the call based on all the information you have available to you. If sound is part of that compilation, so be it.
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Last edited by IRISHMAFIA; Sun Jun 13, 2010 at 01:32pm.
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Old Mon Jun 14, 2010, 11:34am
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Okay I know that Softball is not Volleyball. The rulebook for volleyball clearly indicates that the ONLY input for making a call is visual. I see nowhere in any Softball Rulebook which even hints at sound based decisions.

Thanks to 8-inch cannon fire I am deaf in one ear so all sound comes from the same direction, you really need to good ears to pinpoint sound direction (and I can no longer listen to Pink Floyd with headphone). So that slap I hear could be from the tag or a guy hitting his mit behind me.

If you tell a coach you heard an out, you might also hear some colorful language. No I do not think that sound is valid input for making a visual based decision.
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Old Mon Jun 14, 2010, 11:48am
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From the ASA Umpires Manual (talking about a force play)

Quote:
Sound is another element in making a decision. While concentrating on the base and allowing peripheral vision to aid us in seeing the play develop, the sound of the ball hitting the glove helps determine which arrived first, the ball or the player’s foot hitting the base.
No, not this situation, but an example of where the umpires manual suggests the use of sound.
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Last edited by JefferMC; Mon Jun 14, 2010 at 11:50am.
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Old Mon Jun 14, 2010, 01:15pm
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I wouldn't ever tell the coach I heard a tag. I would just say I've got a tag. That is all the info the coach needs.
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