Top Baseball/Softball Rules Myths, 2010 Edition

[JefferMC]

RE: 19...

I maintain that the book stipulates that the defense must get the ball to 1B before the runner gets there, ergo: Tie goes to the runner.

[MD Longhorn]

Originally Posted by JefferMC

RE: 19...

I maintain that the book stipulates that the defense must get the ball to 1B before the runner gets there, ergo: Tie goes to the runner.

Maintain it all you want... but two things 1) the book never, ever states "Tie goes to the runner" and 2) depending on which book you're looking at, you can find the same statement (under runner, not batter-runner) the other way around.

Not to mention that there's no such thing as a tie.

[JefferMC]

It is true that one of the books (USSSA) reverses (and another, NSA, goes ambiguous) on the runner (as compared to the batter-runner). But, the preponderence of the rules say the defense must act before the offense gets to the base. No, the book doesn't use the words "tie goes to the runner," but the words used have the same meaning.

And as far as "no such thing as a tie..." the human mind has a lower time limit under which it cannot tell which happened first. I think you would have to consider this a tie. While you may attempt to force your mind to decide one happened first, you will be telling it to "make stuff up" and may begin to include information not relevant (such as "shouldn't have been that close," "that fielder made a good play," or "man, that runner is fast.") By allowing the reading of the rule to guide you, you don't have to do any of that.

I'm sorry, I'm going to have to go with "BUSTED" on this myth.

Rule citations are below. I don't happen to have an NFHS rule book handy. If anyone would like...

BTW, these are all fast pitch versions. OBR says the tie goes to the defense. Maybe slow pitch does too?


ASA (2008):

8.2.B (batter-runner is out) When after hitting a fair ball the batter-runner is put out prior to reaching first base.

8.7.c (runner is out) When, on a force play, a fielder contacts the base while holding the ball, or tags the runner before the runner reaches the base.


NCAA (2010):

(batter runner is out)

12.4.1 When she hits a fair ball and is legally put out before reaching first base.

(runner is out)

12.9.1.1 Contacts the base while holding the ball;
12.9.1.2 Touches the ball to the base; or
12.9.1.3 Tags the runner before she reaches the base.

NSA (2005): 8.7.b

When after a fair ball is hit, the ball is held by a fielder touching 1st base with any part of his/her person, before the batter-baserunner touches 1st base.

8.8.c (ambigous on the runner... hmm, this reads like you could do it while the runner is on the base. )

When, on a force out, a fielder tags him/her with the ball or tags the base.

ISA (2008):

7.2.h When, after a fair ball, a fielder holds the ball on first base before the batter-runner touches or passes that base.

7.8.c When, on a force play, a fielder contacts the base while holding the ball, touches the ball to the base or tags the runner before the runner reaches the base.

USSSA (2008): 8.17.c

If, after a third strike or a fair hit, any fielder, while holding the ball, touches the batterrunner before the batter-runner touches first base; or if any fielder, while holding the ball securely in a hand, touches first base or touches first base with the ball before the batter-runner touches first base.

however, 8.18.M does reverse at the other bases:

He fails to reach the next base before a fielder either tags runner out; or holds the ball while touching such base, after runner has been forced from the base occupied because the batter became a runner.

WFC (2009):

7.2.b (batter-runner) When after hitting a fair ball the batter-runner is legally put out prior to reaching first base.

7.8.c (runner) When, on a force play, a fielder contacts the base while holding the ball, touches the ball to the base or tags the runner before the runner reaches the base.

AFA (2008): 12.7.a

When, on a force play, a fielder (1) contacts the base while holding the ball, (2) touches the ball to the base or (3) tags the runner before she reaches the base.

USFA (2009)... ha ha ha... I guess the myth applies because there's no definition at all; you're just supposed to know this.

IFA

11.3.1 (batter-runner is out when: ) She hits a fair ball and is legally put out before reaching first base
11.7.1 (base runner is out: ) When on a force play, a fielder:
a) Contacts the base while holding the ball;
b) Touches the ball to the base; or
c) Tags the runner before she reaches the base.

PONY (2010)

9.7.d (batter-runner is out) When, after a fair ball is hit, the ball is held by a fielder touching first base with any part of her person before the batter-baserunner touches first base.

9.8.c (runner is out) When, on a force-out, a fielder tags her with the ball or holds the ball on the base to which the baserunner is forced to advance before the runner reaches the base.

DIXIE YOUTH (2006)

8:07.b (batter/baserunner is out) When after a fair ball, the ball is held by a fielder touching first base with any part of her person before the batter/baserunner touches first base.

8:08.c (baserunner is out) When on a force-out a fielder tags her with the ball or holds the ball on the base to which the baserunner is forced to advance before the baserunner reaches the base.

[ASA/NYSSOBLUE]

Originally Posted by mbcrowder

Maintain it all you want... but two things 1) the book never, ever states "Tie goes to the runner" and 2) depending on which book you're looking at, you can find the same statement (under runner, not batter-runner) the other way around.

Not to mention that there's no such thing as a tie.

The explanation - right or wrong - I always give to the 'tie goes to the runner' crowd, is the book infers that the runner must reach the base safely, so that if there is a 'tie', the runner did NOT reach 'safely'....usually works....

[JefferMC]

Originally Posted by ASA/NYSSOBLUE

The explanation - right or wrong - I always give to the 'tie goes to the runner' crowd, is the book infers that the runner must reach the base safely, so that if there is a 'tie', the runner did NOT reach 'safely'....usually works....

It may work, but it isn't supported by the rule book. In fact, read up a reply, the opposite is true.

[MD Longhorn]

Originally Posted by ASA/NYSSOBLUE

The explanation - right or wrong - I always give to the 'tie goes to the runner' crowd, is the book infers that the runner must reach the base safely, so that if there is a 'tie', the runner did NOT reach 'safely'....usually works....

If I ever have to give an explanation, I generally just say, "She beat the throw" or "The throw beat her".

[greymule]

#9 If the batter does not pull the bat back while in the bunting position, it is an automatic strike. FALSE in baseball, but TRUE in softball. A strike is defined in part as, “A legal pitch that is attempted to be hit by the batter and is missed.” In baseball, merely holding the bat in the bunting position is not to be interpreted as the batter attempted to hit the ball, but in softball, holding the bat in the strike zone is to be interpreted as a bunt attempt.

In NCAA softball, holding the bat in the strike zone is ipso facto considered "offering." Not so in ASA, unless there was a rule change in the past year or so.

Another myth I've heard more than once is that if a pitcher is replaced during an at bat, the batter's strikes disappear.

[TwoBits]

Originally Posted by JefferMC

RE: 19...

I maintain that the book stipulates that the defense must get the ball to 1B before the runner gets there, ergo: Tie goes to the runner.

I agree with you with the wording of the rule in most rule sets, but I fall within mbcrowder's group as all other experienced umpires in my area do: There are no ties.

Greymule, as ASA fastpitch has all but disappeared in this area, I didn't check their rule set. However, this is a rule that FED and USSSA implemented in the last year, so its possible that ASA has the same interpretation now as well.