Rule 8, Section 2I Batter-Runner is out - IFF

[vcblue]

This was in this months ASA Rule Clarification. No longer should umpires say, "Well you should have known", just correct your actions in the fairest way possible. I used this logic last year at a friendly. My partner said I was wrong. I told him this is how we will do it today. Now I can show him I was right

Rule 8, Section 2I Batter-Runner is out

Play: R1 on 3B, R2 on 2B and R3 on 1B and one out. B5 hits, what appears to be, an infield fly that it is not called by the umpires. The ball was not caught and F5 picks up the ball and throws home for a force play with no tag being applied, and the runner is called out. After all play has ceased the defensive coach requests time to discuss the play with the umpires as they feel that the infield fly should have been called per ASA rules. After the umpires discuss the situation the plate umpire calls the batter-runner out on an infield fly and rules the runner that touched the plate safe for not being tagged. The offensive coach protests and asks if the umpires can legally call Infield fly after the fact?

Ruling: If after the umpires get together and agree this fly ball met the criteria of Rule 1, INFIELD FLY, and the umpire failed to make the correct call at the time, then Rule 9, Section 1A[1-4] allows the umpire to call “Infield Fly” when the opposing team brought this to the attention of the umpires. In regards to R1 at 3B, by the umpire not calling “Infield Fly” this put both teams in jeopardy. Rule 10, Section 3C allows for the umpire to rectify any situation in which a reversal of an umpire’s decision or delayed call places the offensive or defensive team in jeopardy. In the above case, the batter should be ruled out for Infield Fly and return R1 to 3B.
As to the question of whether the umpires can decide, after the fact, to call an Infield Fly or not, the following information should be noted:

1) If the umpires thought it was a fly ball that could be caught by normal effort (Rule 1 Definition Infield Fly) and did not call infield fly, then the opposing team could protest a misapplication of the playing rules under Rule 9A, Section 1-4.

2) Not calling infield fly put both the offense and defense in jeopardy, especially the runner from 3B attempting to score.

3) Rule 10 Section 3C allows the umpires to rectify any situation in which a reversal of an umpire’s decision or delayed call by an umpire places a batter-runner, runner or defensive team in jeopardy.

In this case, if the umpires decide, under protest, that the Infield Fly Rule should have been called, then they put the defense in jeopardy by not knowing that they had to tag the runner. The umpires should have returned all runners to the last base touched before they ruled the batter–runner out on the Infield fly rule that should have been called.
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[IRISHMAFIA]

Actually, I don't think there is really anything new here, at least, not as I have learned the rules.

Rule 10 has always allowed the umpire to make allowances for a team's dilemna when the umpire failed or inaccurately made a call.

[MD Longhorn]

I agree Mike... when I read it I was wondering: "What does this clarify?"

[okla21fan]

Originally Posted by IRISHMAFIA

Actually, I don't think there is really anything new here, at least, not as I have learned the rules.

Rule 10 has always allowed the umpire to make allowances for a team's dilemna when the umpire failed or inaccurately made a call.

Didn't this used to be a casebook play? (before the Casebook was 'purged')

[vcblue]

I have heard and seen umpire make the call after the fact. In doing so causing problems with base running. I know most of us on this board are veterans. It is just good seeing ASA giving some definitive instruction to new umpires.

Now we just need those new umpire to join this board and look at the ASA website.

[Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.]

Originally Posted by vcblue

This was in this months ASA Rule Clarification. No longer should umpires say, "Well you should have known", just correct your actions in the fairest way possible. I used this logic last year at a friendly. My partner said I was wrong. I told him this is how we will do it today. Now I can show him I was right

Rule 8, Section 2I Batter-Runner is out

Play: R1 on 3B, R2 on 2B and R3 on 1B and one out. B5 hits, what appears to be, an infield fly that it is not called by the umpires. The ball was not caught and F5 picks up the ball and throws home for a force play with no tag being applied, and the runner is called out. After all play has ceased the defensive coach requests time to discuss the play with the umpires as they feel that the infield fly should have been called per ASA rules. After the umpires discuss the situation the plate umpire calls the batter-runner out on an infield fly and rules the runner that touched the plate safe for not being tagged. The offensive coach protests and asks if the umpires can legally call Infield fly after the fact?

Ruling: If after the umpires get together and agree this fly ball met the criteria of Rule 1, INFIELD FLY, and the umpire failed to make the correct call at the time, then Rule 9, Section 1A[1-4] allows the umpire to call “Infield Fly” when the opposing team brought this to the attention of the umpires. In regards to R1 at 3B, by the umpire not calling “Infield Fly” this put both teams in jeopardy. Rule 10, Section 3C allows for the umpire to rectify any situation in which a reversal of an umpire’s decision or delayed call places the offensive or defensive team in jeopardy. In the above case, the batter should be ruled out for Infield Fly and return R1 to 3B.
As to the question of whether the umpires can decide, after the fact, to call an Infield Fly or not, the following information should be noted:

1) If the umpires thought it was a fly ball that could be caught by normal effort (Rule 1 Definition Infield Fly) and did not call infield fly, then the opposing team could protest a misapplication of the playing rules under Rule 9A, Section 1-4.

2) Not calling infield fly put both the offense and defense in jeopardy, especially the runner from 3B attempting to score.

3) Rule 10 Section 3C allows the umpires to rectify any situation in which a reversal of an umpire’s decision or delayed call by an umpire places a batter-runner, runner or defensive team in jeopardy.

In this case, if the umpires decide, under protest, that the Infield Fly Rule should have been called, then they put the defense in jeopardy by not knowing that they had to tag the runner. The umpires should have returned all runners to the last base touched before they ruled the batter–runner out on the Infield fly rule that should have been called.
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Please let me be the stinker here. F5's throw to F2 at HP and F2 touches HP before R1 reaches the HP area. R1 veers off and enters her dugout. After the delayed IFF ruling can the defensive team appeal R1 not touching HP for the third out of the inning?

MTD, Sr.

[HugoTafurst]

Originally Posted by Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.

Please let me be the stinker here. F5's throw to F2 at HP and F2 touches HP before R1 reaches the HP area. R1 veers off and enters her dugout. After the delayed IFF ruling can the defensive team appeal R1 not touching HP for the third out of the inning?

MTD, Sr.

Not if you agree with:

"3) Rule 10 Section 3C allows the umpires to rectify any situation in which a reversal of an umpire’s decision or delayed call by an umpire places a batter-runner, runner or defensive team in jeopardy."

[MD Longhorn]

Originally Posted by Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.

Please let me be the stinker here. F5's throw to F2 at HP and F2 touches HP before R1 reaches the HP area. R1 veers off and enters her dugout. After the delayed IFF ruling can the defensive team appeal R1 not touching HP for the third out of the inning?

MTD, Sr.

No. The umpire put that player in jeopardy - the fix is put them back on the base.

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally Posted by Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.

Please let me be the stinker here. F5's throw to F2 at HP and F2 touches HP before R1 reaches the HP area. R1 veers off and enters her dugout. After the delayed IFF ruling can the defensive team appeal R1 not touching HP for the third out of the inning?

MTD, Sr.

Sure they can. That doesn't mean that I have to accept it and rule the runner out.

[CecilOne]

I finally figured out what the second F in IFF stands for.
It's an obscenity which we are not allowed to say, as in Infield Fly F*%^&(@#!

[Dakota]

Originally Posted by CecilOne

I finally figured out what the second F in IFF stands for.
It's an obscenity which we are not allowed to say, as in Infield Fly F*%^&(@#!

Which is the verbal when calling an IF in a non-IF situation...

In the situation described, the verbal would be OFIF..

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally Posted by CecilOne

I finally figured out what the second F in IFF stands for.
It's an obscenity which we are not allowed to say, as in Infield Fly F*%^&(@#!

I have the same words, different order.