Advantage/Disadvantage

[BlitzkriegBob]

While I know that basketball officials use this theory all the time, I had never really heard about it being applied to umpiring. Now out of nowhere this year, I have heard it and read about it many times. The latest came after I called an IP on a pitcher in a Fed game when she made more than 1-1/2 revolutions with her arm. I was describing the incident to another umpire who didn't work this game, and his thought was that if the pitcher wasn't gaining an advantage, he would have let it go.

For me personally, I have never applied advantage/disadvantage to my thought process in making calls. Thinking about it now, I believe that I shouldn't be including it in my thought process. For example, on at least three occasions I have had a runner who badly mistimes the pitcher's motion, and did not maintain contact with the base prior to the release of the pitch. On each occasion, the runner has tried to hold the base, thereby losing all momentum and actually placing themselves at a disadvantage. However, I still called all of them out for leaving the base early.

Am I mistaken in my thinking? As always, I appreciate any thoughts or comments.

[drwells1]

BlitzkriegBob you are correct in not using advantage/disadvantage to your thought process. We are there to enforce the rules as written and to the best of our ability. If we started questioning our thought process then we would not be objective. How many times have you seen a team being destroyed and then come back and win because of a change of events. What if that change of events was because you as an umpire decided to not make a call because you didn't want to cause an uproar. Remember every call we make is an advantage/ disadvantage depending on which dugout you are looking out of.

[PSUchem]

Agree. Leave "advantage" to that other S-word sport (soccer) and out of softball.

[Altor]

Also, think of it this way. If it's in the rule book, there's a reason. It's probably an advantage.

[MrRabbit]

However, I still called all of them out for leaving the base early.

Am I mistaken in my thinking? As always, I appreciate any thoughts or comments.[/QUOTE]

You either left early or you did not... Call it.

Several year back my partner and I had just finished our game and stopped to watch the end of a another 16A game between two teams that would likely be in the championship game and walk back with our fellow umpires.

Bases loaded, bottom of the 7, tied game, 2 outs, 2 strikes on the batter.
Pitcher leaps, not a small leap, a good 6 inches plus, base umpire calls it and walk the winning run in, game over. Even to my partner and I it was a no brainier call, and totally correct. Even PU saw it and agreed.

Coach goes off, you know the words, you idiot umpire you cost us the game, how can you make that call, bah, bah, bah.

The bad part of this call is that the UIC chewed the game umpires up and said that call should not have made at that time in the game and situation.

Both of these umpires were top notch.

The pitcher was trying to gaining an advantage and get that 3rd strike and send it in to extra innings, DMP.

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally Posted by BlitzkriegBob

Am I mistaken in my thinking? As always, I appreciate any thoughts or comments.

If we are going to make decisions and calls based upon TPOAD, there is no reason to have all those rules.

I have never seen a rule or manual or clinic presentation which included the disclaimer: "Call the rule this way unless neither team gained an advantage."

[HugoTafurst]

I'm not good enough to decide if there was an advantage or disadvantage and then make (or not make) a call.

[Umpteenth]

I've gotten grief from fellow umpires (all SP/Rec league) for:
1) Calling runner out for leaving too soon (3rd out, team was way ahead, not quite the run rule, but time was about to expire; it was last game of the night).
2) Coach literally pushing R1 back to 3rd base (1 out, they were behind by a few runs) on a fly ball to F8 to ensure she tagged up - she was 4 steps down the line. Ended up as 3rd out, after the catch.

It's the rule. It's my integrity. It's what I get paid to do.

[BlitzkriegBob]

Originally Posted by IRISHMAFIA

If we are going to make decisions and calls based upon TPOAD, there is no reason to have all those rules.

I have never seen a rule or manual or clinic presentation which included the disclaimer: "Call the rule this way unless neither team gained an advantage."

Neither have I, but for whatever reason I've been hearing this many times the last couple of months. I also know that I've read it on at least two or three threads on here and/or other message boards, but other than the "Short Handed?" thread on this board I can't seem to find any other mention. I also had thought no one had called anyone to task for mentioning it, but of course Mike did exactly that in that thread.

Originally Posted by HugoTafurst

I'm not good enough to decide if there was an advantage or disadvantage and then make (or not make) a call.

Exactly! I don't know what advantage might be gained by making 1-5/8 revolutions instead of 1-1/2 revolutions, but if the rule book says you can't do it then I thought I should call it.

Thanks for the feedback everyone. I was planning on bringing this up at a future association meeting, but wanted to make sure I wasn't going to wind up with egg on my face for suggesting we not consider TPOAD as Mike puts it.

[marvin]

My answer whenever someone brings up the advantage/disadvantage issue is two fold:

1) If there is no gain then there should be no loss by following the rules as written.

2) The only accurate way to measure if an advantage is gained to to follow the rules as written. There may be an advantage that you can not perceive.