Obstruction at First Base: Where's the Protection?

[Manny A]

Batter bunts the ball toward F1. F1 fields and throws to F3, but the throw is wide, pulling F3 into the BR's path, and F3 cannot catch the ball. The BR collides with F3 just in front of the orange bag, and falls beyond the bag about ten feet or so. BU throws out the left arm for the Obstruction call. F9, backing up the play at first, fields the errant throw.

While the BR is getting up, she hears her first base coach tell her to go to second. The BR starts heading that way, but then turns back toward first when she sees F9 with the ball. F9 throws to F3, and the BR is tagged before she reaches the bag on the headfirst slide back.

Is the BR protected between first and second due to the Obstruction at first base? Or was she only protected at first, and she lost that protection when she made her move toward second?

[CecilOne]

As best as I can visualize from the OP, only protected at first, and she lost that protection when she made her move toward second?

If ITUJ, the OBD prevented reaching 2nd because she was down; possible to award 1st after the tag. Very unlikely.

[MD Longhorn]

While I am firmly in the camp of protecting a runner on BOTH sides of the bag when a fielder is standing on the base and there's no play (in other words ... F4 standing on 2nd as a runner is running, that runner has been obstructed between 1st and 2nd AND has been obstructed between 2nd and 3rd)...

in this play, the obstruction is clearly in front of first base - therefore the protection is only between home and first.

[youngump]

Originally Posted by CecilOne

As best as I can visualize from the OP, only protected at first, and she lost that protection when she made her move toward second?

If ITUJ, the OBD prevented reaching 2nd because she was down; possible to award 1st after the tag. Very unlikely.

No, it's not. If the OBS prevented her from reaching 2nd, she's entitled to second. Award her that (and from the description of the play, I think that's what I have, but HTBT. The coach thought she could make it in spite of laying on the ground for a while so the throw was probably fairly errant.

The only way to get her safe at first is if you have her obstructed between 1st and second. Now if she had fallen toward second and not gotten up, I don't think any of us would allow her to be tagged out (having passed the base she was entitled to). If that's right, then the only way you get to MD's conclusion is if you believe that falling past first is like overrunning and therefore the obstruction didn't also occur between first and second.
I'm protecting a runner as IMJ, the obstruction occurred from the point of contact to the point at which she fell, not just at the point of contact.

[Tru_in_Blu]

Originally Posted by Manny A

Is the BR protected between first and second due to the Obstruction at first base? Or was she only protected at first, and she lost that protection when she made her move toward second?

I choose "B".

Many times I'll hear a coach imploring his runner(s) to "go, go, go" at the first sign of an overthrow. Then they realize the defense was heads up and executed their backup responsibilities properly. Then it's "no, no, no".

Another assumption from the OP is that the BR did manage to touch the base while tumbling after the collision. While perhaps not relevant to the immediate discussion, an OBS runner is still required to touch the base(s).

[RKBUmp]

Yes, obstructed runners are still required to legally run the bases. So, even if the umpire judged the runner would have safely reached 2nd and awarded it after the out, the runner is still required to touch 1st. If she doesnt, she is subject to being out on appeal.

[Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.]

The discussion that this play has generated is a good reason for at least the NFHS Softball Rules Committee to adopt the NFHS Baseball Rules Obstruction Rule.

MTD, Sr.

[AtlUmpSteve]

While some of the prior responses spoke in absolutes, it is important to remember that the obstruction rule includes two forms of protection that are BOTH in effect, not mutually exclusive.

First, the runner is always protected to the base the umpire believes would have been attained if not obstructed. In this play, you need to give the runner the benefit of any reasonable chance she would have made 2nd on the original play; if so, if put out before reaching it, it should be awarded.

The second form of protection is the "between the two bases" format, and while it has some notable exclusions, it doesn't override or limit the first form. But, if you believe the runner would have never safely reached 2nd, you need to also give the runner the benefit of reasonable protection. If a runner is knocked over right in front of a base and falls beyond that base, it isn't at all unreasonable to consider the possibility that the runner may have been able to make a turn, and that the collision did and obviously affected her ability to run between first and second, be it safely or at risk. This form does NOT require you to conclude she would be safe; just that her ability to run unhindered has been taken away illegally.

In the first form, the runner would be safe at second, and in the second form, can legally be returned safely to first base. The effort by the coach to push her to take the chance at second shouldn't be used (nor does the rule allow) to take away her protection.

[chapmaja]

Originally Posted by Manny A

Batter bunts the ball toward F1. F1 fields and throws to F3, but the throw is wide, pulling F3 into the BR's path, and F3 cannot catch the ball. The BR collides with F3 just in front of the orange bag, and falls beyond the bag about ten feet or so. BU throws out the left arm for the Obstruction call. F9, backing up the play at first, fields the errant throw.

While the BR is getting up, she hears her first base coach tell her to go to second. The BR starts heading that way, but then turns back toward first when she sees F9 with the ball. F9 throws to F3, and the BR is tagged before she reaches the bag on the headfirst slide back.

Is the BR protected between first and second due to the Obstruction at first base? Or was she only protected at first, and she lost that protection when she made her move toward second?

To me this is a HTBT situation. Based on the description, I don't see this as a sure thing that the runner would have made it to second barring the obstruction, therefore I have him/her only protected to first base. When she choose to go towards second she has now gone by the base she was protected to. Again, this is a HTBT situation though.

[Dakota]

Originally Posted by chapmaja

...I don't see this as a sure thing that the runner would have made it to second barring the obstruction, therefore I have him/her only protected to first base...

I don't use "sure thing" as the standard. While it does need to be judged as the base the runner would have achieved, meaning that it is not an award as a penalty; the runner must have had a reasonably good chance to have reached the advanced base. The benefit of the doubt goes to the runner. This is a bit lower than a sure thing standard. That's what I do, anyway.

[dlsumpntx]

Originally Posted by Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.

The discussion that this play has generated is a good reason for at least the NFHS Softball Rules Committee to adopt the NFHS Baseball Rules Obstruction Rule.

MTD, Sr.

and that NFHS baseball obstruction rule is ...???

[Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.]

Originally Posted by dlsumpntx

and that NFHS baseball obstruction rule is ...???

Situation: B/R1 has rounds 1B and goes about ten feet toward 2B. B1 now decides to return to 1B. F4 obstructs B1 while he/she is attempting to return to 1B and B1 is tagged out.

NFHS Softball: The out is negated and B1 is awarded 1B.

NFHS Baseball: The out is negated and B1 is awarded 2B.

MTD, Sr.

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally Posted by Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.

Situation: B/R1 has rounds 1B and goes about ten feet toward 2B. B1 now decides to return to 1B. F4 obstructs B1 while he/she is attempting to return to 1B and B1 is tagged out.

NFHS Softball: The out is negated and B1 is awarded 1B.

NFHS Baseball: The out is negated and B1 is awarded 2B.

MTD, Sr.

Yeah, I'll stick with the softball application, thank you very much

[MD Longhorn]

Originally Posted by Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.

Situation: B/R1 has rounds 1B and goes about ten feet toward 2B. B1 now decides to return to 1B. F4 obstructs B1 while he/she is attempting to return to 1B and B1 is tagged out.

NFHS Softball: The out is negated and B1 is awarded 1B.

NFHS Baseball: The out is negated and B1 is awarded 2B.

MTD, Sr.

The softball version makes more sense 99% of the time. OBS awards are not meant to be punitive, but rather are meant to make things back to what they would have been absent the obstruction (the only real punitive part is that the defense might lose the opportunity for an out that they might have otherwise gotten). Baseball's version adds on penalties. Not a fan.