Live ball appeal - missed home plate

[youngump]

Originally Posted by IRISHMAFIA

RULE 7

Appeals and Protests

7.1 Appeals

7.1.1 An appeal is a play or rule violation on which the umpire does not make a ruling until requested by a coach or player. The following may be appealed:

7.1.1.2.5 A runner is assumed to have touched the base and if a

proper appeal is not made, the runner is safe.

(a) If a runner misses home plate and the catcher misses or makes

no attempt to tag the runner, the umpire shall make a safe
signal and declare ?No tag.? If a proper appeal is made, by
tagging the plate or runner before the runner returns to the
plate, the runner shall be declared out.

Here is the problem I have with the NCAA ruling. I understand this is what they want and that is the way it should be handled when working their game.

If, by rule, the runner is assumed to have touched the base and the umpire is not to make a ruling until requested, what do they call an umpire verbalizing "No tag"? Casual conversation? IMO, this is dictated coaching.

I fully expect a few people to attempt to justify it. Don't waste your time or keystrokes, it's not worth the trouble. It is just my opinion, which I believe we are still permitted at least for now.

However, I feel this as ludicrous as pointing foul on a ball near the line.

Do they think that "no tag" is going to just be overlooked and the player and coaches are going to just say, "oh well, I missed the tag"? GMAFB!!

You know damn well this is an indicator which the catcher has been told by the coach to continue playing and block any access to the plate immediately upon hearing the umpire say anything other than safe or out.

Like I said, just my opinion.

An easy way around this would be to simply call no tag whether they miss the base or not. I had to read this a couple of times because of assuming thta is what they'd do, to get what you were saying.
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[AtlUmpSteve]

Originally Posted by youngump

An easy way around this would be to simply call no tag whether they miss the base or not. I had to read this a couple of times because of assuming thta is what they'd do, to get what you were saying.

But would not comply with the (stupid) rule. Only if the runner misses the plate, and there is no tag (attempted or not) does the rule state the umpire is make a declaration.

I promise I pissed off many the year they made this a rule by asking why we didn't just tell the defense "SHE MISSED THE PLATE!!!".

So much for an appeal for a missed base being a play where the umpire does not make a ruling unless asked. In the NCAA, that is only true for 3 of the 4 bases; on the fourth, we tell them to appeal!!. Because they say so!!

Not a mechanic (which you could ignore without penalty, but at your own peril). By rule, so your failure to comply is protestable.

[outathm]

I was right there next to you Steve, however, this weekend I used the Rule properly and no one said a word. Run scored.

The rule is only as good as the coach' knowledge of the same.

[Andy]

Originally Posted by outathm

...The rule is only as good as the coach' knowledge of the same.

If that's the case, then the rules suck!

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally Posted by outathm

I was right there next to you Steve, however, this weekend I used the Rule properly and no one said a word. Run scored.

The rule is only as good as the coach' knowledge of the same.

I guess it should be noted that in some levels umpires will use the term "no tag" when the ball beats a runner at a base (including home), but the tag is missed. However, usually that is followed by a safe signal and call.

Though better coaching of the catcher should resolve any issue of confusion, I can see where the two could be confused.

Come to think of it, on a miss-n-miss play, if the umpire is going to declare "no tag", why is s/he not also declaring "no touch" to equalize any perceived benefit the defense may contrive by the prescribed declaration?

[Tru_in_Blu]

In a SP Rec league last evening. League bylaws state that over the fence home runs must be run out.

Bases loaded, batter clears them with a grand slam. Batter allegedly missed HP, and the PU apparently wasn't looking [shame on him]. So an appeal was made and the PU ruled safe.

My question is about the timing of when an appeal can be made. I realize a runner cannot go back to touch HP if a subsequent runner has scored. So let's focus on the batter. Since the ball is over the fence, we have a dead ball situation. Say in his exeuberance, the batter runs past HP and doesn't touch it. How soon can the defense appeal the missed plate? The BR may realize he missed the plate and goes back to touch it two seconds after, or he's half-way to the dugout and his teammates tell him to return to touch.

I'm assuming this isn't like an appeal at 1B when the BR overruns the base without touching it. Do we wait until a ball is given to the pitcher at which point the defense can appeal?

Logically, I'm thinking when the BR enters the dugout area OR when the pitcher has a replacement ball. [And some umps give the pitcher another ball while the BR is rounding the bases. I wait until the BR has completed his tour.]

Thanx.

[CecilOne]

Do we need a ball in play for a dead ball appeal?

[Tru_in_Blu]

Originally Posted by CecilOne

Do we need a ball in play for a dead ball appeal?

That's not the point.

How soon can the defense appeal the missed plate?

It's somewhere between immediately and before the next pitch [legal or illegal]. Where on that timeline do you straddle?

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally Posted by Tru_in_Blu

In a SP Rec league last evening. League bylaws state that over the fence home runs must be run out.

Bases loaded, batter clears them with a grand slam. Batter allegedly missed HP, and the PU apparently wasn't looking [shame on him]. So an appeal was made and the PU ruled safe.

My question is about the timing of when an appeal can be made. I realize a runner cannot go back to touch HP if a subsequent runner has scored. So let's focus on the batter. Since the ball is over the fence, we have a dead ball situation. Say in his exeuberance, the batter runs past HP and doesn't touch it. How soon can the defense appeal the missed plate? The BR may realize he missed the plate and goes back to touch it two seconds after, or he's half-way to the dugout and his teammates tell him to return to touch.

I'm assuming this isn't like an appeal at 1B when the BR overruns the base without touching it. Do we wait until a ball is given to the pitcher at which point the defense can appeal?

Logically, I'm thinking when the BR enters the dugout area OR when the pitcher has a replacement ball. [And some umps give the pitcher another ball while the BR is rounding the bases. I wait until the BR has completed his tour.]

Thanx.

If the catcher is smart, the catcher will wait until the last runner leaves the field of play.

[Tru_in_Blu]

Originally Posted by IRISHMAFIA

If the catcher is smart, the catcher will wait until the last runner leaves the field of play.

OK that gets me a bit closer to a real answer. Is this an implied answer? Does that mean that if the catcher declares an attempt to appeal and the BR hears that, the BR is within his/her right to go over and touch HP without being called out?

[rybo]

Why is a missed home plate situation any different then a missed base, do you say anything when a runner misses 1st, 2nd or 3rd base?

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally Posted by rybo

Why is a missed home plate situation any different then a missed base, do you say anything when a runner misses 1st, 2nd or 3rd base?

Other than the fact they are not required to keep contact with the plate

Mostly, it is not much different.

[MD Longhorn]

Originally Posted by IRISHMAFIA

Other than the fact they are not required to keep contact with the plate

No they don't... they can proceed to the next base.