intentionally dropped ball

[steveshane67]

Originally Posted by greymule

A warning for deception?

Where does this idea come from? I knew ASA umpires in NJ who called illegal pitches for "intent to deceive" and refused to call illegal pitches if "there was no intent to deceive."

no idea....

i personally think the ASA rule is dumb bc it flies in the face of the intent of the rule. its basically tantamount to saying the IFer must catch the ball in order for IFF to be invoked.

[NCASAUmp]

Originally Posted by steveshane67

no idea....

i personally think the ASA rule is dumb bc it flies in the face of the intent of the rule. its basically tantamount to saying the IFer must catch the ball in order for IFF to be invoked.

Um, how? The rule is completely separate from IFF. For IFF, you must have runners on at least 1st and 2nd. For IDB, you only need at least a runner on 1B. Also, the IFF rule takes precedence over IDB.

So how is it "tantamount" to requiring a catch for IFF?

[referee99]

I had the 1st and 2nd no one out. ASA slowpitch I'm PU. Low liner to short, no catch, guide to ground. Step on 2nd throw to first for double play.
I signal ball is down and give safe signal. Every other person on the field and within earshot thought I got it wrong and was a complete numbskull.

Partner BU is giving a not-so-subtle out signal on the initial contact with the glove, which all of the players saw. I go to him and say I didn't see a catch, and if we were going IDB he has to have control which he did not. Partner shrugs and says, "its your clal, but I think he's out and dead ball"

What a frikkin' lonely feeling. I really had 2nd thoughts, but had recently read up here (thanks a heck of a lot!) and knew I had the call right for ASA.

What was shocking is how no one else shared my opinion.

[steveshane67]

Originally Posted by NCASAUmp

Um, how? The rule is completely separate from IFF. For IFF, you must have runners on at least 1st and 2nd. For IDB, you only need at least a runner on 1B. Also, the IFF rule takes precedence over IDB.

So how is it "tantamount" to requiring a catch for IFF?

really?? can you not figure that one out for yourself?

whats the reasoning behind the IFF rule? its so, when runners on base, the defense cant turn a play, when the runners would be damned if they do, damned if they dont, into 2 or 3 "cheap" outs. I wont explain further bc Im assuming, as an umpire, you understand game a little about strategy.

now, regardless of what ASA's definition of "intentionally dropped" is, whats the reasoning behind the IDB rule? its so, when runner(s) on base, the defense cant turn a play, when the runners would be damned if they do, damned if they dont, into 2 or 3 "cheap" outs.

bc ASA has a very narrow definition of what "intentionally dropped" is, i was alluded to the fact that is it very similar as if the IFF rule was very narrowly defined. seeing as how in all my years playing baseball and softball, ive never seen an IF physically catch the ball, then drop it, in order to try and pull off an IDB situation, ive only seen IFers guide the ball to the ground, or not close their glove on the ball.

i really dont see how what i said was that hard to understand or to believe. i also understand that its your job as an ump to regulate the game as prescribed but that doesnt mean you have to blindly agree with every rule and fail to understand a bad rule's "hypocrisy"

[steveshane67]

Originally Posted by NCASAUmp

Um, how? The rule is completely separate from IFF. For IFF, you must have runners on at least 1st and 2nd. For IDB, you only need at least a runner on 1B. Also, the IFF rule takes precedence over IDB.

So how is it "tantamount" to requiring a catch for IFF?

i should have included this in my last post, but an additional one will suffice.

you do realize why there is a difference in the runner requirement for the IFF and IDB rules right?

on an IFF, the runner has time to run out a dropped ball, thus only requiring a runner on 1st is unnecessary bc theoretically, the D could only turn a dropped by into 1 out.

on an IDB, the runner does not have time to run out a dropped by, thus a runner on 1st is required to prevent the D from not turning 1 play into 2 outs, when the runner "cant" run on contact.

but then again, i figured someone of your softball knowledge already knew that