intentionally dropped ball

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally Posted by greymule

I know that NCAA follows ASA on permitting the guiding of the ball to the ground. I assume Fed does the same, but I don't know for sure. There are a lot of softball codes out there, and I don't doubt that some call it differently.

Apparently, there is a belief that this is something that is easy to do with no possible down side. That is not true. There is little guarantee the ball is going to be controled after it hits the ground.

I have made this call a couple of times as recent as this past season. OTOH, I have also seen it botched more often than it being successful. The ball and the contour of the field do not always cooperate with the fielder. IMO, the "runner on 1B" requirement should be removed because if the BR isn't going to run, tough. And if it happened quick enough to turn a double play in that situation, the IDB had no affect on the play than if it were a trapped ball.

I'd also like to add that the rule, at least ASA, notes that to qualify as a IDB, it must have been able to be caught with ordinary effort. Unless a line drive is directly at the fielder, IMJ the effort is probably a bit more than ordinary.

[greymule]

IMO, the "runner on 1B" requirement because if the BR isn't going to run, tough.

I think you might have left something out.

Incidentally, my first post mentions IFF situation. The rule of course also includes runner on 1B and no other runners. But the rule could say, like the U3K rule, simply "when 1B is occupied."

I once called an IDB on a shortstop only to have the defense argue, "He [F6] isn't good enough to intentionally drop a ball!"

[steveshane67]

Originally Posted by greymule

I once called an IDB on a shortstop only to have the defense argue, "He [F6] isn't good enough to intentionally drop a ball!"

ive heard that said a fair amount of the time, but it doesnt change the effect of the spirit of the rule, which, just as the IFF, is to prevent the defense from turning a double or triple play on a ball that the rule writers believe should only result in 1 out.

on a side note, i just got home from a game and mentioned the RS to the ASA ump and he said all the ASA umps he knows of, which im assuming is a large #, all call the play the same way as its written in the MLB rules, not the ASA rules. meaning if he, or the other umps he knows, see an IF guide the ball to the ground, they will call IDB.

[BretMan]

I find it hard to believe that he has: Discussed this very play with "every umpire he knows", and; That to a man they have all decided to ignore the written rules of the sanctioning body they're working for and just make up their own interpretation.

Maybe he only knows, like, two or three umpires!

That's strange. Did he bother to explain why he and every umpire he knows does this?

[steveshane67]

Originally Posted by BretMan

I find it hard to believe that he has: Discussed this very play with "every umpire he knows", and; That to a man they have all decided to ignore the written rules of the sanctioning body they're working for and just make up their own interpretation.

Maybe he only knows, like, two or three umpires!

That's strange. Did he bother to explain why he and every umpire he knows does this?

i cant remember his exact reasoning, but he said something to the effect that if a SS guided a ball to the ground hed not only kill the play but give the player a warning for deception. this ump has been working for ~20 years and made it seem like it was pretty standard operating procedure in the boston area for slow pitch. Ive been playing softball in boston area for about 3 years (~75-100 games/per) and never seen it called the "ASA way".

as i alluded to in my OP, a few months ago, i was playing SS, 1st and 2nd 0 outs, a soft liner to my left, i guided the ball to the ground, tagged R2, stepped on 2nd and was in the process of throwing to 1st when the ump ruled IDB.

I had always been under the impression that the ASA rule was the same as MLB, so i only try it if its a new ump to "test" his rule knowledge (and bc its a bush league play). when he called IDB, i actually thought to myself this guy aint half bad and even told him nice call in between innings. now i guess i can add that to the list of times ive been screwed over by an ump....(sarcasm)

[greymule]

A warning for deception?

Where does this idea come from? I knew ASA umpires in NJ who called illegal pitches for "intent to deceive" and refused to call illegal pitches if "there was no intent to deceive."

[steveshane67]

Originally Posted by greymule

A warning for deception?

Where does this idea come from? I knew ASA umpires in NJ who called illegal pitches for "intent to deceive" and refused to call illegal pitches if "there was no intent to deceive."

no idea....

i personally think the ASA rule is dumb bc it flies in the face of the intent of the rule. its basically tantamount to saying the IFer must catch the ball in order for IFF to be invoked.

[SethPDX]

Originally Posted by greymule

A warning for deception?

Where does this idea come from? I knew ASA umpires in NJ who called illegal pitches for "intent to deceive" and refused to call illegal pitches if "there was no intent to deceive."

Sounds like some umpires took a bad practice from baseball and applied it to softball.