Originally Posted by Ref Ump Welsch (Post 621910)

Highlighted in red is NOT true. That's the "general" assumption everyone makes. No where in the USSSA book does it say a player starts with a 1-1 count. I got reamed by an UIC in championship play in my 2nd or 3rd year for doing this. They start with a 0-0 count, but only get 2 strikes as opposed to 3, 3 balls as opposed to 4.

Originally Posted by Ref Ump Welsch (Post 621910)

Highlighted in red is NOT true. That's the "general" assumption everyone makes. No where in the USSSA book does it say a player starts with a 1-1 count. I got reamed by an UIC in championship play in my 2nd or 3rd year for doing this. They start with a 0-0 count, but only get 2 strikes as opposed to 3, 3 balls as opposed to 4.

Originally Posted by BretMan (Post 621919)

I don't work any USSSA slow pitch (or, really much slow pitch of any variety, for that matter). But this and other U-Trip questions come up often enough on various discussion boards that I've downloaded their rule book for future reference.

My understanding was that USSSA is the "exception to the rule" from the rest of the softball world when it comes to awarding bases on this play (ball thrown out-of-play before runner has re-touched following a caught batted ball).

What is the intent behind the final sentence of the "EFFECT" following their rule 8-7-F?

8-7: Baserunners are entitled to advance without liability to be put out...(F) When a ball is live after a batted ball and is overthrown into foul territory and is blocked.

EFFECT Sec. 7. F. In all cases, when a blocked ball occurs on an overthrown live ball, the ball is immediately dead. Each and every Base Runner is awarded two bases from last base occupied, unless required to retouch.

(For the guys here that "speak ASA", the USSSA definition of a "blocked ball" is the same as the ASA definition of an "overthrow". Their definition of a throw that goes into dead ball area is that it's a "blocked ball".)

And then there is this:

8-9: Baserunners may, and shall, return to bases at various times...(D) A Base Runner returning to a base to retag a base on a fly ball caught and thrown by a Fielder to any base. If the ball is thrown by a Fielder into the restricted area, the Base Runner shall be awarded the base he must retouch, plus one base. Since the Base Runner is required to regain the base he first occupied, he is awarded that base and only one more.

Sounds to me like the runner in question is only getting second base, not third!

Originally Posted by referee99 (Post 621663)

... my question is, in USSSA that one base is back to the base that he would have needed to touch. Right?

I know that:
R1 at 1B, batter hits line drive to F1 who snags it, throws quickly to F3 to double runner off 1B. F1 throws ball over F3 and out of play. R1 had not retouched 1B when the throw was released. Runner is awarded 2 bases, but one of them is the retouch of 1B and they end up at 2B.

So in OP, runner just back to base that they needed to touch?

Originally Posted by steveshane67 (Post 622055)

just in case anyone cares, in baseball....