12B Western National

[vcblue]

This came from a coach who is a customer of mine. What do you all think? After additional inquiry the PU was standing behind the catcher

I told him this was the PUs call and you just have to hope by getting together they got it right.

"We’re down 5-0…last at bat….we rally for three runs….we’ve got two out, runner on first….one of our girls hits a long single to left center….our runner rounds second heads to third….there is a throw and a close play at third….neither umpire makes a call (the field umpire was behind 2nd base…they come out and confer four about 3 minutes….still no call…finally they call her out……we felt if they could not arrive at a decision that given they were both out of position, they should have called her safe….anyway the game ended on that note…instead of having the tying run at second, the game was over. Thoughts?"

[Chess Ref]

Well thats not good.

In our area a bad little habit is creeping in that the BU takes all the calls on the bases so that would have at least gotten a call.

Thats why I still pregame with a runner on who is going to take what call.

[CecilOne]

Originally Posted by vcblue

This came from a coach who is a customer of mine. What do you all think? After additional inquiry the PU was standing behind the catcher

I told him this was the PUs call and you just have to hope by getting together they got it right. If he was not a customer I would have told him next time you need to score your runs earlier in the game .

"We’re down 5-0…last at bat….we rally for three runs….we’ve got two out, runner on first….one of our girls hits a long single to left center….our runner rounds second heads to third….there is a throw and a close play at third….neither umpire makes a call (the field umpire was behind 2nd base…they come out and confer four about 3 minutes….still no call…finally they call her out……we felt if they could not arrive at a decision that given they were both out of position, they should have called her safe….anyway the game ended on that note…instead of having the tying run at second, the game was over. Thoughts?"

Are you (or the coach) saying they called an out w/o seeing it and w/o being sure?

[NCASAUmp]

Originally Posted by CecilOne

Are you (or the coach) saying they called an out w/o seeing it and w/o being sure?

If they conferred for 3 minutes, neither of them saw it.

If neither of them saw it, I'm amazed that they called the out. They're guessing at that point (unless there's more to this play than was told - imagine that).

[vcblue]

I agree neither of them saw it but I did not want to throw fellow blues under the bus.

[NCASAUmp]

Originally Posted by vcblue

I agree neither of them saw it but I did not want to throw fellow blues under the bus.

I think if anyone sees umpires conferring on a judgment call for 3 minutes, the bus has already left the station.

I'm not trying to speak ill of my brethren. It happens. We all have brain farts on the field, and some are chock-full of brain diarrhea. If they didn't see it, hey, life will go on. I'm just surprised that they guessed an out, unless something else happened that we're not aware of (maybe BU saw OBS as R1 rounded 2B).

[Dakota]

Couple things (trying to put the best shade of lipstick on this pig):

We only have the coach's version of events, including that the umpires were out of position and that the conference took 3 minutes.

Let's suppose PU did have a clear (even if lazy) view of the play, but did not call it since it was BU's call (he thought). Let's suppose the "3 minutes" was really 10 seconds of the two umpires staring at each other, 10 seconds hearing the rising din from the fans and coaches, 10 seconds to get together, a minute to discuss who saw what, and 20 seconds to decide whose call it was and announce the call. ~2 minutes gets exaggerated by the coach due to poor credibility due to poor mechanics; but not necessarily the wrong call, or even guessing (except, maybe about whose call it was).

[wadeintothem]

I'll line up with Dakota.

Thats what went down.

But I'll add...

Reading between the lines, the coach knows the girl WAS in fact out.

So they got it right.

Of course, given a different circumstance, that coach would claim he would want the umpires to get together and get the call right.

[Andy]

Originally Posted by wadeintothem

I'll line up with Dakota.

Thats what went down.

But I'll add...

Reading between the lines, the coach knows the girl WAS in fact out.

So they got it right.

Of course, given a different circumstance, that coach would claim he would want the umpires to get together and get the call right (translated as: in my favor).

added a clarifying translation

[vcblue]

That is why I answered the way I did. I was not there. It was a judgment call. So on and so forth. I choose not to ask what he really thought. I know he is the 3rd base coach.

[LT]

I believe this was the 10B Western Nationals in the Pacific NW last weekend......that was the close play in a loser bracket game on Sunday morning.....a game where I was the volunteer scorekeeper. We used local blues to help with scorekeeping duties.

We were told NOT to say anything regarding the umpiring during the game....so my mouth was shut.

Don't know who the umpires were or where they were from (not anybody I have umpired with over the 15 years at levels ranging from local friendlies to state; regionals or nationals).

But, the PU never moved away from the plate the entire game. Never to the holding area. Never up the third base line on plays with a runner on second.

I'm sitting there thinking...something BAD is going to happen.

Well it did in the last inning.

R1 on 2nd with 2 outs. Batter hits a base hit to the outfield.

The BU was in the proper position moving from the 3 or C spot to behind the pitching circle to take the batter runner. He did his job properly....not sure if he peeked over his shoulder to make sure the PU was moving up the line to take the play at 3rd.

My only fault with the BU is that he had to know the PU wasn't moving up the line earlier in the game and should have confirmed that was going to happen in the future. No idea what their pre-game discussion was about.

Anyway, the play was very close at third....The PU just looked at the BU for a few moments...then they met on the infield. Made an out signal and all i**##!! broke out with the parents.

I just finished my scoresheet, handed it in with a comment to the TD that there is an issue on Field #5 and be prepared.

[vcblue]

You are right it was 10u western national. Sorry about that, but with what you said I must ask, 'What was the UIC during during the whole National"? Let's face it this blue probably never moved up the line during the entire tournament, yet the UIC selected him work on Sunday?

[LT]

Can't say much about the UIC....didn't know him; never worked for him at previous tourneys.

I asked one of the "umpire assistants".....individuals that were assisting the umpire crews with water; food, etc....."were everyone evaluated as the practice at Nationals to determine the Sunday crews?"

He stated that each were evaluated on Saturday and the final day crews created from that data.

I know the crew that worked the next game on that Sunday did an excellent job with plenty of hustle; communication to each other; great mechanics; PU had a very consistent strike zone....and as a result, no challenges by the coaches.

[senorazul]

wow..what a mess and corrabarted by a third party..should not be happening at a national...