INT on a DP?

[steveshane67]

Originally Posted by NCASAUmp

Maybe you need to realize that although it's annoying, recreational league games are usually where most umps get their start.

Maybe the first word in that phrase escapes you: "recreational."

You're not going to find all rec league umps at the same level. Some call Nationals, most don't. Give me a break, it's rec league.

While it should be the goal of every umpire to be perfect the first game and to improve every game thereafter, the reality is that we're all human. We make mistakes. We're NOT perfect.

Don't expect local rec league umpires to be any different.

I understand that SP softball will probably get the worse umpires but doesnt ASA require umps to pass a test and do a clinic to be certified??? Whats on the test???

And one league I play in, an "A" level mens league, takes itself (the league that is, not the players) way too seriously and employs 2 umps for the games when 1 is all thats necessary.

To give you another example, 2nd and 3rd, 1 out, fly ball to LC, runner on 3rd leaves really really early, runner on 2nd does not tag. The ball comes in to the infield, 3B appeals [to the PU] the runner at 3rd, the PU says its not my call, its the BU's call [which obv is not right], BU said I wasnt paying attention, safe, 3B argues to PU that not only is it his call, but regardless of whos call it actually is, did you see the runner leave early, and if so can you call him out, bc BU wasnt looking, PU says I cant overrule the BU bc it was his call. later the PU admitted he saw the runner leave early but didnt feel it was proper to overrule the BU, bc it was "his call"

basically about every other game there is a "major" misstake by the umps here that shouldnt happen, especially since the umps have to be certified. If they werent certified and we werent paying them $22/ump/team, it wouldnt be a big deal, bc you "pay for what you get"

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally Posted by steveshane67

I understand that SP softball will probably get the worse umpires but doesnt ASA require umps to pass a test and do a clinic to be certified??? Whats on the test???

And one league I play in, an "A" level mens league, takes itself (the league that is, not the players) way too seriously and employs 2 umps for the games when 1 is all thats necessary.

To give you another example, 2nd and 3rd, 1 out, fly ball to LC, runner on 3rd leaves really really early, runner on 2nd does not tag. The ball comes in to the infield, 3B appeals [to the PU] the runner at 3rd, the PU says its not my call, its the BU's call [which obv is not right], BU said I wasnt paying attention, safe, 3B argues to PU that not only is it his call, but regardless of whos call it actually is, did you see the runner leave early, and if so can you call him out, bc BU wasnt looking, PU says I cant overrule the BU bc it was his call. later the PU admitted he saw the runner leave early but didnt feel it was proper to overrule the BU, bc it was "his call"

basically about every other game there is a "major" misstake by the umps here that shouldnt happen, especially since the umps have to be certified. If they werent certified and we werent paying them $22/ump/team, it wouldnt be a big deal, bc you "pay for what you get"

Ha! Absolutely classical!

[Skahtboi]

Originally Posted by IRISHMAFIA

Ha! Absolutely classical!

What? The whining? Or the absolute lack of knowledge when it comes to umpiring?

[steveshane67]

Originally Posted by Skahtboi

What? The whining? Or the absolute lack of knowledge when it comes to umpiring?

So was I wrong when I said that in a 2 man crew the BU has 1st and 2nd and not 3rd base???

Or was I wrong in saying the PU can override the BU???

please enlighten me, some of us are on here bc they dont know everything, and want to learn.

[NCASAUmp]

Originally Posted by steveshane67

So was I wrong when I said that in a 2 man crew the BU has 1st and 2nd and not 3rd base???

Yes and no. BU has 1B and 2B for out/safe calls, but tag-up responsibilities are another matter. No, BU does not have 3B for a tag-up. Yes, the PU screwed up.

Originally Posted by steveshane67

Or was I wrong in saying the PU can override the BU???

Actually, yes, you are dead wrong. This isn't tennis or volleyball where there's one official over all others. No umpire can set aside the judgment of another umpire when it's that other umpire's call. Did the PU screw up? Yes. Can he overrule another umpire? Hell no.

Originally Posted by steveshane67

please enlighten me, some of us are on here bc they dont know everything, and want to learn.

I'm starting to doubt that. All I'm hearing from you is b1tch, b1tch, b1tch.

[steveshane67]

Originally Posted by NCASAUmp

Actually, yes, you are dead wrong. This isn't tennis or volleyball where there's one official over all others. No umpire can set aside the judgment of another umpire when it's that other umpire's call. Did the PU screw up? Yes. Can he overrule another umpire? Hell no.

I'm starting to doubt that. All I'm hearing from you is b1tch, b1tch, b1tch.

Is softball different than baseball in the fact the baseball umps will meet, discuss a "contested" play and make a "second" ruling? There was a play a few weeks ago, slow dribbler down the first base line, the pitcher or firstbaseman ran over, fielded the ball as their momentum carried then into foul territory. The PU ruled foul ball. The umps met after the OC argued (ball was hit too slow for the fast runner to be put out) and ruled fair ball and awarded the BR 1B. Since that call was the PUs, someone had to overrule his foul ball call....

Im of the mindset that the umps job at the end of the day is to get the call right. Lets say in a 2 man crew, the BU calls a runner out when they were clearly clearly safe, then by all means the PU should step in and make the correct call. who cares if its not "his call" or hes not supposed to do that, I care about getting the calls right, not about the possibility of embarrassing or hurting the other umps feelings.

In the 2nd half of this thread Ive certainly been *****ing, but most of the time Im on here asking questions about the rules. And once again, I wouldnt be *****ing if the umps didnt have to go through a whole certification process. If they were just some random guys off the street that the commish knows, then thats understandable.

[Umpteenth]

Originally Posted by steveshane67

In the 2nd half of this thread Ive certainly been *****ing, but most of the time Im on here asking questions about the rules. And once again, I wouldnt be *****ing if the umps didnt have to go through a whole certification process. If they were just some random guys off the street that the commish knows, then thats understandable.

Perhaps you should take this up with the local umpire association. Sounds like there might be a problem. I don't think you're going to find the support you want here. I certainly would not throw my partner under the bus. Judgment calls are just that, someone's personal judgment. And you can't protest how someone else interpreted what they saw. You can protest application of a specific rule or rules if there is a problem. Certainly, brom your OP, the PU blew that call on the runner leaving early. If we were perfect in our line of work, we would certainly earn a lot more than $22 per game. I think you might have an isolated problem there that needs local help.

[Dakota]

Originally Posted by steveshane67

Is softball different than baseball in the fact the baseball umps will meet, discuss a "contested" play and make a "second" ruling? There was a play a few weeks ago, slow dribbler down the first base line, the pitcher or firstbaseman ran over, fielded the ball as their momentum carried then into foul territory. The PU ruled foul ball. The umps met after the OC argued (ball was hit too slow for the fast runner to be put out) and ruled fair ball and awarded the BR 1B. Since that call was the PUs, someone had to overrule his foul ball call....

Im of the mindset that the umps job at the end of the day is to get the call right. Lets say in a 2 man crew, the BU calls a runner out when they were clearly clearly safe, then by all means the PU should step in and make the correct call. who cares if its not "his call" or hes not supposed to do that, I care about getting the calls right, not about the possibility of embarrassing or hurting the other umps feelings.

You clearly have no clue.

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally Posted by steveshane67

Is softball different than baseball in the fact the baseball umps will meet, discuss a "contested" play and make a "second" ruling? There was a play a few weeks ago, slow dribbler down the first base line, the pitcher or firstbaseman ran over, fielded the ball as their momentum carried then into foul territory. The PU ruled foul ball. The umps met after the OC argued (ball was hit too slow for the fast runner to be put out) and ruled fair ball and awarded the BR 1B. Since that call was the PUs, someone had to overrule his foul ball call....

If that is true, those guys were truly idiots and shouldn't be on the field as umpires. Then again, based on your postings, I doubt that is a true scenario.

Im of the mindset that the umps job at the end of the day is to get the call right. Lets say in a 2 man crew, the BU calls a runner out when they were clearly clearly safe, then by all means the PU should step in and make the correct call. who cares if its not "his call" or hes not supposed to do that, I care about getting the calls right, not about the possibility of embarrassing or hurting the other umps feelings.

In the 2nd half of this thread Ive certainly been *****ing, but most of the time Im on here asking questions about the rules. And once again, I wouldnt be *****ing if the umps didnt have to go through a whole certification process. If they were just some random guys off the street that the commish knows, then thats understandable.

Tom made the call, but we can meet, discuss and correct the situation.



So, after a long and arduous discussion, we decided to correct the problem at hand. So, please accept our decision as rendered. You now have a clue, just not about softball or umpiring.

Good luck.

Originally Posted by steveshane67

Im of the mindset that the umps job at the end of the day is to get the call right. Lets say in a 2 man crew, the BU calls a runner out when they were clearly clearly safe, then by all means the PU should step in and make the correct call. who cares if its not "his call" or hes not supposed to do that, I care about getting the calls right, not about the possibility of embarrassing or hurting the other umps feelings.

Softball is no different from football or basketball, both of which I work in addition to softball. No other official on the field/court has the right to overrule another official's call. If an official makes a call, and another official believes he/she has information that may affect the call (possibly change it), he/she can bring it to the attention of the calling official. It is still up to the calling official whether or not the call stands or changes. There have been a few times in my sports where I've changed a call based on another official's information.

The part I highlighted in red, is the exact kind of attitude we get from coaches/managers in the sports I work and I noticed you picked up on it. I'm not praising you because it is the WRONG attitude to take. I've had coaches/managers who "assumed" my no-call was the right call and having another official call something in my area was the wrong call, when in fact my no-call would have been the result of my not seeing the infraction from the angle I had while my fellow official saw it from their angle. It happens all the time in football and basketball. It doesn't have a place in softball, because one of the two (or three or four, depending on the game, etc.) umpires will always have a call. For another umpire to come in with an opposing call on the same play would create a situation where there is TWO calls on the same play, and a pile of elephant s**t would need to be cleaned up. Yes, I've had situations where two officials made differing calls on the same play in football and basketball, but there's something that can be done in those sports to clean up the elephant s**t that can't be done in softball.

Rant off...have a good day, and don't let the door hit you on the way out.

[argodad]

Originally Posted by steveshane67

Since that call was the PUs, someone had to overrule his foul ball call....

No, no, no. Nobody overruled him. They "offered him a veritable plethora of information that he did not previously have." He changed his own call.

[NCASAUmp]

Originally Posted by steveshane67

I understand that SP softball will probably get the worse umpires but doesnt ASA require umps to pass a test and do a clinic to be certified??? Whats on the test???

Ahem... Speaking as an ASA SP-only umpire... Referring to SP umpires as being the "worst umpires" is, quite frankly, an insult (Oh, by the way... Nice grammar. It's "worst," not "worse," Bub.). I did not say SP umpires were a bunch of newbies. I said this is rec league play, and your expectations should follow accordingly.

Okay, fine, so you have umpires that screw up. Is it really the end of your world? I mean, really? C'mon. You get what, a t-shirt at the end of the year? And is one "major mistake" really going to ruin your night?

Get real, and rethink your priorities in life. You get zero sympathy from me, jack@ss.

[ronald]

Originally Posted by NCASAUmp

Get real, and rethink your priorities in life. You get zero sympathy from me, jack@ss.

What happened Dave?

I'll see you in Salem, VA. Don't know if I will do any D games but will do E. Sent the contract a couple of days ago.

[NCASAUmp]

Originally Posted by ronald

What happened Dave?

I'll see you in Salem, VA. Don't know if I will do any D games but will do E. Sent the contract a couple of days ago.

Bah... No worries. Just found another wolf in Fechheimers.

Have you gotten your packet yet from the UIC?

[ronald]

Originally Posted by NCASAUmp

Bah... No worries. Just found another wolf in Fechheimers.

Have you gotten your packet yet from the UIC?

No. I just sent in the contract. Called about the ISSA World Championship in Manassas VA (my back yard kind of) and he asked me if I was available labor day for the E. Said yes so emailed the contract on Tuesday or Wednesday. They must be short of umps cause we are not suppose to go to 2 Nationals in a year. No dropping dimes on me guys.