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-   -   Had to forfeit my 1st game (https://forum.officiating.com/softball/53943-had-forfeit-my-1st-game.html)

Dholloway1962 Mon Jul 13, 2009 10:57am
Quote:
Originally Posted by wadeintothem (Post 614225)
Two minutes is a pretty quick forfeit IMO.
Why does the book say 2 minutes then?

NCASAUmp Mon Jul 13, 2009 11:06am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dholloway1962 (Post 614299)
Why does the book say 2 minutes then?
I hate to say it, but in this specific case, you're wrong.

Quote:
ASA 5-4-D: If, after play has been suspended by the umpire, one side fails to resume playing within two minutes after “play ball” has been declared by the umpire.
This wasn't a suspended game.

ronald Mon Jul 13, 2009 11:25am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dholloway1962 (Post 614298)
Yes
I spent over 2 minutes telling him to get the batter back out, which he refused to do. I wasn't quick on the trigger, I was more than patient trying to just finish the darn game. He refused to get me a batter after more than 2 minutes of being told to do so. He gave me no recourse but to forfeit the game.
What do you think you could have done differently concerning spending two minutes talking to the coach?

Dakota Mon Jul 13, 2009 11:30am
Quote:
Originally Posted by NCASAUmp (Post 614301)
...This wasn't a suspended game.
True, but play was suspended, which is what the rule is talking about.

wadeintothem Mon Jul 13, 2009 11:36am
Either way, EVEN if it did apply, You wouldnt sit there with a stop watch for the 2 minutes anymore than you sit there with a stop watch for the 1 minute after an ejection. You use some common sense.

wadeintothem Mon Jul 13, 2009 11:43am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dholloway1962 (Post 614298)
Yes

Yes

Without a doubt he had time to get 3 strikes or any of another of other things to "legally" get his 3rd out

Yes

I spent over 2 minutes telling him to get the batter back out, which he refused to do. I wasn't quick on the trigger, I was more than patient trying to just finish the darn game. He refused to get me a batter after more than 2 minutes of being told to do so. He gave me no recourse but to forfeit the game.

So you told him you were going to forfeit the game if he didnt get you a batter and he refused?

If so, I have no problem with it.

Or did you use it for a top secret WMD and blind side him with it?

umpirebob71 Mon Jul 13, 2009 11:59am
The real beauty of this situation is that now that coach gets to go explain the the parents how and why he got their daughter's team handed a forfeit. I'll bet they were none too pleased.

ronald Mon Jul 13, 2009 12:02pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dholloway1962 (Post 614174)

I am standing at plate doing nothing and say I need a batter at the plate. HT coach says that 3 outs she entered the dugout, I say no, I need a batter now. HT coach sends his players onto the field as I call "strike 2". He then proceeds to tell me I don't know what I'm doing and the rule says she is out. This continues, until my timer goes off, which means 2 minutes had passed.

I called "ball game" forfeit.
Did the time expire first or did you forfeit before time expired? If time expired first, why call the game based on the forfeit rule?

Dholloway1962 Mon Jul 13, 2009 12:13pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by ronald (Post 614322)
Did the time expire first or did you forfeit before time expired? If time expired first, why call the game based on the forfeit rule?

Time expired first and I again told the coach to send the batter to the plate, which he didn't. He refused to continue to play so forfeit.

Coach violated rule 5 sections 4
C. Refused to continue to play
D. failed to resume play within 2 minutes after play ball declared
E. employed tactics noticeably desgined to delay or hasten the game
F. after warning by the umpire, willfully violated rules of the game

Those of you that say I pulled the trigger too quick, how long would you have waited? There was no signs of him putting the batter back, he was obviously grandstanding and trying to show me up, and just being a jacka..

Dholloway1962 Mon Jul 13, 2009 12:15pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by wadeintothem (Post 614317)
So you told him you were going to forfeit the game if he didnt get you a batter and he refused?

If so, I have no problem with it.

Or did you use it for a top secret WMD and blind side him with it?
He was warned of the consequences and called my bluff. No WMD, he was the one who tried to use the WMD :D

ronald Mon Jul 13, 2009 12:21pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by wadeintothem (Post 614317)
So you told him you were going to forfeit the game if he didnt get you a batter and he refused?

If so, I have no problem with it.
Me neither.

However, I am not sold on the forfeit yet. What happened first? forfeit or time expiring. (already asked that).

Next concern is "this continues until timer goes off". What is the details of this continues. Coach going blah, blah, blah or coach blah blah and umpire responding with what? Was this a two minute "this continues" or how much time?

ronald Mon Jul 13, 2009 12:37pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dholloway1962 (Post 614325)
Time expired first and I again told the coach to send the batter to the plate, which he didn't. He refused to continue to play so forfeit.

Coach violated rule 5 sections 4
C. Refused to continue to play
D. failed to resume play within 2 minutes after play ball declared
E. employed tactics noticeably desgined to delay or hasten the game
F. after warning by the umpire, willfully violated rules of the game

Those of you that say I pulled the trigger too quick, how long would you have waited? There was no signs of him putting the batter back, he was obviously grandstanding and trying to show me up, and just being a jacka..
After time expired, game over. You gave him one more chance after that, so yup, no choice how it played out but to forfeit it and he has to do what umpirebog said.

Two minutes is enough time I think for D. As for F, that has to be much less. Give coach time to process what you have told him and no more than 10 seconds to make a decision and specifically ask him for his decision.


My biggest question was what transpired during the 2 minutes. If you gave him your decision and moved on great. My first impression from the reading is there might have been some back and forth during the 2 minutes.
That is what I am trying to ascertain.

Thanks, Ron
Thanks

NCASAUmp Mon Jul 13, 2009 12:39pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by ronald (Post 614327)
Me neither.

However, I am not sold on the forfeit yet. What happened first? forfeit or time expiring. (already asked that).

Next concern is "this continues until timer goes off". What is the details of this continues. Coach going blah, blah, blah or coach blah blah and umpire responding with what? Was this a two minute "this continues" or how much time?
Regardless of whether the clock ran out, I agree with the decision to forfeit the game. Last thing you want is to have the coach argue that the umpire was the one wasting time. The forfeit makes it absolutely clear that the umpire wasn't the one wasting time, but rather the HC was the one wasting time and got called on it.

Dakota Mon Jul 13, 2009 01:02pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by ronald (Post 614322)
...If time expired first, why call the game based on the forfeit rule?
Declaring time expired would not end the game since home was at bat.

ronald Mon Jul 13, 2009 01:02pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by NCASAUmp (Post 614330)
Regardless of whether the clock ran out, I agree with the decision to forfeit the game. Last thing you want is to have the coach argue that the umpire was the one wasting time. The forfeit makes it absolutely clear that the umpire wasn't the one wasting time, but rather the HC was the one wasting time and got called on it.
Good point, touche!:)


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