Any recourse, any call

[TXFPBlue]

Have a pitcher that is very suspicious about maintaining rear foot contact with plate. 18U ASA. Already called once for illegal pitch and now every time I look in I can't even see the plate because she has it covered with dirt. Tried several times to sweep, but didn't keep interrupting game with cleaning pitchers plate. What would you do?

[wadeintothem]

Since thanking her would probably be inappropriate, just go on. You got nothing.

[NCASAUmp]

Look at this just like you would the batter's boxes when the lines have been wiped out. At that point, it's left up to your judgment to decide "is the pitcher making contact with the plate?" If the plate were visible, you'd only call it if you were absolutely certain she's off the plate, right? Well, since the plate's not visible, you're just going to have to be reasonable.

Just because you can't see the plate doesn't mean it's not there. However, you'd better be damn certain she's off that plate if you're going to call it. Otherwise, you're in for a sh1tstorm from the DC, and rightfully so.

[SC Ump]

Originally Posted by TXFPBlue

Have a pitcher that is very suspicious about maintaining rear foot contact with plate. 18U ASA. Already called once for illegal pitch and now every time I look in I can't even see the plate because she has it covered with dirt. Tried several times to sweep, but didn't keep interrupting game with cleaning pitchers plate. What would you do?

If it was significant enough that you felt you needed to call it when the plate was visible, then it needs to be called anyway you look at it.

Tell her to knock it off and then take care of it if you have to. It might be minor, but is minor cheating still cheating?

[NCASAUmp]

Originally Posted by SC Ump

If it was significant enough that you felt you needed to call it when the plate was visible, then it needs to be called anyway you look at it.

Tell her to knock it off and then take care of it if you have to. It might be minor, but is minor cheating still cheating?

I don't really think it's cheating. Look, there's dirt all over the field. We try to "tidy up," but it gets knocked around. Until she's building a burial mound over the pitcher's plate, I've got nothing.

If you're absolutely certain that it's an IP, call it. That's how it always is: when you see it, call it. If you don't see it, you can't call it.

Had a similar sitch in USSSA men's slow-pitch. The pitcher was intentionally covering the rubber, according to his "reasoning" it was better protection. Since USSSA has the pitching box, he reasoned we should be able to call the unfairly delivered ball without a problem (mind you, the lines had been wiped because this was the 3rd game of the night). I told him no, you need to uncover the plate, and the only time I will not have an issue with dirt covering the plate is if it happens during the course of play. He refused, so I called his first pitch unfairly delivered, and next thing I knew, I was sending his sorry a** to the parking lot. Sheesh.

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally Posted by Ref Ump Welsch

Had a similar sitch in USSSA men's slow-pitch. The pitcher was intentionally covering the rubber, according to his "reasoning" it was better protection. Since USSSA has the pitching box, he reasoned we should be able to call the unfairly delivered ball without a problem (mind you, the lines had been wiped because this was the 3rd game of the night).

Though I'm not a fan of the pitching box, that almost sounds sensible

[SC Ump]

Originally Posted by NCASAUmp

...there's dirt all over the field. We try to "tidy up," but it gets knocked around.

I agree with the normally situations. The original post sounded like she was covering it intentionally so she could get away with something. To me, that's different than the normal dirt shifting that occurs with regular play.

If I brush it and she immediately covers it, I would instruct her to knock it off.

[NCASAUmp]

Originally Posted by SC Ump

I agree with the normally situations. The original post sounded like she was covering it intentionally so she could get away with something. To me, that's different than the normal dirt shifting that occurs with regular play.

If I brush it and she immediately covers it, I would instruct her to knock it off.

If it's just a kick or two, I don't care. If she's building an actual mound out there, then I'll tell her to knock it off.

[wadeintothem]

She needs to learn to fake like its an accident like everyone else. If shes too blatant about it, it's likely someone will get her.

Originally Posted by IRISHMAFIA

Though I'm not a fan of the pitching box, that almost sounds sensible

Heh, I actually contacted the state director about this, and his reply was: Be a smart *** and cover home plate and then have the pitcher try getting in the strike zone.

No, really, his reply was: The plate shouldn't be covered intentionally because we need a reference point in order to determine the pitching box. The next time I had the pitcher, he said he got an interpretation from the state director and proceeded to cover the plate. I told him, my interpretation which the state director backs forbids the intentional covering of the plate. Next thing I knew, sent the sucker's sorry a** to the parking lot again. This kid just didn't get it.

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally Posted by SC Ump

I agree with the normally situations. The original post sounded like she was covering it intentionally so she could get away with something. To me, that's different than the normal dirt shifting that occurs with regular play.

If I brush it and she immediately covers it, I would instruct her to knock it off.

Personally, I really don't care if they cover it up as long as I believe they are meeting the requirements set forth in the rules, however, if you are going to enforce such a thing, make sure it is done from game one, not wait until the halfway through a tournament or championship game.

[wadeintothem]

Ditto that.

I've even had a pitcher be nice enough to tell me "Dont worry about cleaning it, I will just cover it up."

[CecilOne]

BTW, I just learned from a coach that a pitch can't be illegal because the pitcher is professionally trained.

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally Posted by CecilOne

BTW, I just learned from a coach that a pitch can't be illegal because the pitcher is professionally trained.

The coach is wrong. That just means that a professionally trained pitcher can only be called illegal by a professional umpire like.......YOU!