2009 advanced FP camp

[azbigdawg]

Originally Posted by wadeintothem

Gotta agree about rimming. I was working a NAFA tournament and practicing rim and I got caught behind the runner when left field pooched a can of corn that suddenly turned into a triple. Its not that great of positioning. I'm fast enough that it didnt hurt too badly, but had I been inside, I would have done better. Rim is great to be lazy. Its purpose is so you dont come in unnecessarily. Of course you never really know when that is. You never know. Rimming has no place in 2 man mechanics at all.
Do not agree on a ball hit to RF or any congested play at 1B where fielders are converging to the umpires calling area or a ball will be thrown through there. But thats the way it is. There are times when the best 90 is in foul territory - to eliminate that removes any need to be a student of the game for plays at 1.

In fact, you should go there in many instances, PU take 2-3 and BU rotate home.

I guess thats too complicated though for the 38,999 umpires.. so thats the way it goes.

This is my once (or maybe twice) a year agreeing with Wade. In 3 man...I can see staying outside at 1b, because you have 3u in front of you to come up and cover 2nd. Its a HORRBILE mechanic in two man. Younger (inexperienced) umpires MUST be taught how to get inside and get all the elements in front of you. Its a basic concept. If you stay outside you WILL get stuck behind a runner on an overthrow, bobble, etc if you are not careful, and possibly even if you are. The local hs organization experimented with the mechaninc this year, and all I saw was new umpires getting caught, and getting in the way of throws...

[Dakota]

No comment on wade's notion that BU should rotate home in 2 man?

[NCASAUmp]

Originally Posted by Dakota

No comment on wade's notion that BU should rotate home in 2 man?

Interesting concept he proposes.

Wade, would you like to clarify that mechanic? I'm open to hearing what you have to say about it...

[wadeintothem]

Originally Posted by NCASAUmp

Interesting concept he proposes.

Wade, would you like to clarify that mechanic? I'm open to hearing what you have to say about it...

Any time BU's job is to pick his nose while PU's job is at 3, BU should be home and actually have a job besides relaxing spectator.


Another example than above is hit and run or bunt (R1@ 1B) where the out is to 1B and PU takes the banger at 3B. BU should be home.
What else does he have to do?

Why should PU be forced to follow R1 home if the play goes that way?

BU should be gainfully employed covering home.

Its common sense.

[IRISHMAFIA]

No comment on wade's notion that BU should rotate home in 2 man?

Originally Posted by NCASAUmp

Interesting concept he proposes.

Wade, would you like to clarify that mechanic? I'm open to hearing what you have to say about it...

That's so easy, it is almost embarassing. One simple sentence, "Who is covering 2B?"

[wadeintothem]

For the hit and run, if there was potential of a play at 2B - (Ie the BR is safe or there is a run down)

BU would never rotate home.

BU would only rotate home with communication to his partner when he is no longer employed.

This same concept applies when he is "out and should stay out" - such as an outside foul line call at 1B.

Well at least cover home. BU doesnt need to spectate or cheerlead the PU, they can be employed at home.

IF BR is safe on the hit and run - BU should never rotate home.

I dont think that would be too difficult to teach to a national level umpire.

Even texas baseball umpires understand it

[CecilOne]

What were the questions/contexts behind these two?

9. On force plays at first base (no such thing), follow the DVD. It is the gospel.

10. On swipe tag at first base, one of the instructors told us what he has done. Instead of going towards the line which does nothing for your angle, he moves to his right to get a better view of a tag or no tag.

[ronald]

Originally Posted by CecilOne

What were the questions/contexts behind these two?

9. On force plays at first base (no such thing), follow the DVD. It is the gospel..

I do not remember a context for this one but it was emphasized a couple of times so I thought to mention it.

Originally Posted by CecilOne

10. On swipe tag at first base, one of the instructors told us what he has done. Instead of going towards the line which does nothing for your angle, he moves to his right to get a better view of a tag or no tag.

When we went to practicing drills, the instructor took it upon himself to add this.

[NCASAUmp]

Originally Posted by CecilOne

10. On swipe tag at first base, one of the instructors told us what he has done. Instead of going towards the line which does nothing for your angle, he moves to his right to get a better view of a tag or no tag.

Don't know about #9, but #10 was discussed ad-nauseam here.

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally Posted by IRISHMAFIA

No comment on wade's notion that BU should rotate home in 2 man?



That's so easy, it is almost embarassing. One simple sentence, "Who is covering 2B?"

Dave,

Still waiting on an answer

[NCASAUmp]

Originally Posted by IRISHMAFIA

Dave,

Still waiting on an answer

Wasn't my suggestion, so hell if I know.

Though I do agree with the concept in general. BU should be allowed to rotate home IF (and ONLY if) there are no other responsibilities at 1B or 2B (ie., batter hits a triple and could head home).

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally Posted by NCASAUmp

Wasn't my suggestion, so hell if I know.

Though I do agree with the concept in general. BU should be allowed to rotate home IF (and ONLY if) there are no other responsibilities at 1B or 2B (ie., batter hits a triple and could head home).

As long as there is a runner between 2B & 3B, how can there NOT be a potential play at 2B?

If a player hits a triple, it isn't the PUs call anyway.

[Big Slick]

Originally Posted by Rachel

I think that discussion of an umpire working outside the infield should be called working outside. Just sayin'. Rimming is an inappropriate term.

I agree about the nomenclature.

The NCAA does not have a strict adherence to the "inside-outside" theory. "Working the rim" is one specific case (base hit to LF with no runners on). Working "outside" has two underlying aspects: 1) there are two calling positions for every play (one inside and one outside); 2) the umpire can read the play and work inside or outside, which ever is beneficial to the play.

As for the first aspect, on runners on, and the BR tries to stretch a single (to LF) to a double. I can stay outside, work parallel with the runner, and be in a calling position at second that is outside. I've made a few out calls like this (2 umpire system), which I 1) never lost my priorities (obs at first, BR touching first, obs at second), 2) did not cross the path of the runner or 3) turned my back on the ball.

As for the second aspect, well, this is the key. Some umpires stay outside just for the sake of staying outside (i.e. laziness). If the BR hits a triple, or what looks to be a triple, then you can't stay outside. Staying outside does have it's place, but as Andy stated, it is an advanced technique, and should not be taught at the basic or LCD levels.

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally Posted by Rachel

I think that discussion of an umpire working outside the infield should be called working outside. Just sayin'. Rimming is an inappropriate term.

Pardon my ignorance, but why is it inappropriate?

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally Posted by Rachel

I think that discussion of an umpire working outside the infield should be called working outside. Just sayin'. Rimming is an inappropriate term.

Should we stop saying the player or umpire blew the play/call or the wind is blowing? Guess Bob Dylan can no longer perform "Blowin' in the Wind".

Now I know why the gallery emits oohs and aahs when a the golf ball rims the cup or the basketball rims the hoop. I always thought it was because it was such a close and exciting shot! And what is that thing called a rimshot? That must really be disgusting! And what about that Ride the Rails to the Rim Tour of the Grand Canyon? Probably don't want to go there.

Wish people would keep their "moral idealogy" in their own circles. Don't they realize that if they consider something inappropriate, vulgar or disgusting, it is their mind looking for the worst in something that causes it to be so? It's like shooting yourself in the foot and then wondering why you are having a difficult time walking!

Okay, done with that, at least here.

AFA the BU rotating home. I'm still trying to figure out how the BU can be unemployed anytime with a single runner. This "old" mechanic cannot be done without leaving 2B uncovered. Until the runner actually gets to 3B, there is always the possibility s/he can reverse course.

I actually had this happen last night. R1 tagged up at 1B on a long caught fly that was at about 320-325' deep. He had good speed and was more than 3/4 to 3B when he realized he was dead and reversed direction. I was in a holding zone watching my partner bring him to 3B.

If I had moved into the field to take the call and my partner broke off to cover home, neither of us would have been in position to make that out call on the throw back to 2B. Luckily, my partner (new umpire) correctly stayed with the runner and made the call.