Fumble Advanced for a Touchdown

[Cruser]

NFHS

3rd & 10 for A at A-40. While running with the ball, A2's facemask is grasped and pulled by B1 at A-45. A2 shakes off B1 and continues running when he is hit and fumbles the ball at the B-45. Teammate A4 then recovers and runs for a touchdown.

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What are the scenarios if A (a) accepts the face-mask penalty or (b) declines the face-mask penalty?

[Edited by Cruser on Sep 23rd, 2004 at 08:52 PM]

[rdfox]

Declining the penalty would result in the TD.

The basic spot for accepting the penalty would be the end of the related run, so it would be the spot of the fumble. The penalty would either be 5 or 15 depending on the official's call.

I do not believe any of the recent rule changes modified the "related run" basic spot theory, so I would not give them the option of assessing the penalty on the succeeding spot (on the try).

[JugglingReferee]

In Canada, the TD stays, at half the distance on the convert or 15 on the kick-off.

[biglaz]

NF

Enforce it on the try!

8-2-2
If during a touchdown, a foul by the opponents of the scoring team occurs, the scoring team may accept hte results of the play and have the penalty enforced from the succeeding spot.

[Cruser]

Originally posted by rdfox
Declining the penalty would result in the TD.

The basic spot for accepting the penalty would be the end of the related run, so it would be the spot of the fumble. The penalty would either be 5 or 15 depending on the official's call.

I do not believe any of the recent rule changes modified the "related run" basic spot theory, so I would not give them the option of assessing the penalty on the succeeding spot (on the try).

These were my thoughts as well. Since the basic spot for enforcement is at the spot of the fumble (where the related run ends), I do not believe they get the option to enforce the penalty from the succeeding spot, which would be the try. Therefore, they would decline the penalty.

Biglaz, I do not believe 8-2-2 applies here (NF).

[jack015]

Biglaz, I do not believe 8-2-2 applies here (NF). [/B][/QUOTE]

This play is exactly what 8-2-2 applies to.

[GeorgiaBlue]

NFHS 10-5-1f

Special enforcement rules - the following fouls have special enforcement provisions and options for the offended team - a foul by the opponents of the scoring team on a touchdown (see 8-2-2).

So 8-2-2 does apply - enforce it on the try!

[SouthGARef]

I've been taught that unless there is a change of possession, a foul by B on an A scoring play the basic spot "changes" to the succeeding spot due to 8-2-2.

Enforce it on the try.

[Cruser]

OK, thanks guys. So, under 10-5-1f this would be a special enforcement rule and 8-2-2 would apply. That makes sense.

[HSrookie]

Originally posted by Cruser
OK, thanks guys. So, under 10-5-1f this would be a special enforcement rule and 8-2-2 would apply. That makes sense.

NFHS RULE 10.4
The basic spot is the spot where the related run ends for a foul which occurs during a running play as defined in 10-3-2.

RULE 10.3.2
A running play is any action not included under Article 1, other than those defined in 2-31-1a.

RULE 10.3.3
The end of the run is:

a. Where the ball becomes dead in the runner's possession.
b. Where the runner loses possession if his run is followed by a loose ball.
c. The spot of the catch when the momentum rule is in effect.

Accordingly A would have to decline the penalty in order to keep the touchdown.

[Patton]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by HSrookie

Originally posted by Cruser
Accordingly A would have to decline the penalty in order to keep the touchdown.

No. 8-2-2 If during a touchdown, a foul by the opponents of the scoring team occurs, the scoring team may accept the results of the play and have the penalty enforced from the succeeding spot.

[Cruser]

Originally posted by HSrookie

NFHS RULE 10.4
The basic spot is the spot where the related run ends for a foul which occurs during a running play as defined in 10-3-2.

RULE 10.3.2
A running play is any action not included under Article 1, other than those defined in 2-31-1a.

RULE 10.3.3
The end of the run is:

a. Where the ball becomes dead in the runner's possession.
b. Where the runner loses possession if his run is followed by a loose ball.
c. The spot of the catch when the momentum rule is in effect.

Accordingly A would have to decline the penalty in order to keep the touchdown.

HSrookie,

Your thoughts on this play were the same as mine originally. However, under special enforcement rule 10-5-1f, I now believe that 8-2-2 applies to all plays in which a touchdown was scored and there was not a change of possesion.

[JAZZMAN]

I asked our state clinician about this play. He said that the foul occurred on the first running play and would have to be declined for the touchdown to stand.

[PSU213]

Originally posted by JAZZMAN
I asked our state clinician about this play. He said that the foul occurred on the first running play and would have to be declined for the touchdown to stand.

We have been told the opposite. That being said, I think a lot of trouble could be cleared up if "play" were replaced with "down" in 8-2-2.

[Warrenkicker]

Perhaps they want us to think about where the penalty would be enforced from. On this play, the spot of enforcement would be the end of the associated run at B-45. Now if there was no fumble and the penalty still occurred as described then the spot of enforcement would be the end of the run at the goal line. But because the ball can't be moved further into the endzone and "really" make it a touchdown we are told to enforce it at the succeeding spot. So I would say that on the play as described they might want us to have A decline the penalty to keep the touchdown. However the book, as written, does not support this idea.