confusion on basebaths

[steveshane67]

[Okay, let's clean up the terminology a little... R1 was on 3B, R2 was on 2B, R3 was on 1B. It'll help you a lot on this forum.

sorry, started associating runners with bases, sort of a freudian slip

Since he then hindered the defense's ability to make a play on another runner (R3), the runner closest to home (R1) is also out (ASA 8-7-P). Three outs. No runs score.

I was the ump for the game, thats what i ruled, the team at bat was not happy, oh well

It's not up to the umpire to scream at the top of their lungs whether or not the ball was caught or whether or not someone was out. We do our best, but sometimes, the crowd gets a little loud, or runners get a little deaf (either intentionally or otherwise).

at what point in time does the BR have to stop running the bases when they are retired? How about this scenario...

assume its a rec league game thus the "dumbness" is easier to imagine
runner on 2nd 1 out, fly ball to LF, the BR jogs half way to 1st base, the LF makes the catch, then the BR decides to sprint not only to 1st, but continues on towards 2nd (basically just being a jack*ss), the LF, confused, throws the ball towards 2nd base, too late to "get" the BR, and the BR continues to sprint towards 3B (note, his team is in the 1B dugout). the 2B, also confused, throws the ball to the 3B, now the BR is in a pickle between 2B and 3B. all the while, the runner on 2nd tags and scores.

is this a legal, but bush league play by the BR?
does the defense have a responsibility to know who is out but still on the field of play?

[NCASAUmp]

Originally Posted by steveshane67

at what point in time does the BR have to stop running the bases when they are retired? How about this scenario...

assume its a rec league game thus the "dumbness" is easier to imagine

Boy, you've just confirmed to us you aren't a coach! You're gonna fit right in here...

Originally Posted by steveshane67

runner on 2nd 1 out, fly ball to LF, the BR jogs half way to 1st base, the LF makes the catch, then the BR decides to sprint not only to 1st, but continues on towards 2nd (basically just being a jack*ss), the LF, confused, throws the ball towards 2nd base, too late to "get" the BR, and the BR continues to sprint towards 3B (note, his team is in the 1B dugout). the 2B, also confused, throws the ball to the 3B, now the BR is in a pickle between 2B and 3B. all the while, the runner on 2nd tags and scores.

is this a legal, but bush league play by the BR?
does the defense have a responsibility to know who is out but still on the field of play?

If you read 8-7-P in its entirety, you'll find:

A runner continuing to run and drawing a throw may be considered a form of interference.

So basically, no, this is not legal. The same rule would apply.

Runners can do, essentially, whatever they want on the bases once they are out. It's whether or not their actions actually HINDER the defense from making a play on another runner that defines a call of interference. As Irishmafia frequently says on here, "runners can't go 'poof' once they are out," and that's very true. However, once they are out, they SHOULD stop running the bases and avoid getting in the way.

The defense does have some obligation to know what's going on. If the batter-runner overruns 1B (without attempting to advance to 2B), the defense should know that tagging the BR is not an out. However, when you have multiple runners, things can, and will, get confusing for fielders. If a runner who was put out behaves in a way that they shouldn't (ie., continuing to run), and they hinder the defense, there's your INT.

[steveshane67]

Boy, you've just confirmed to us you aren't a coach! You're gonna fit right in here...

If you read 8-7-P in its entirety, you'll find:

So basically, no, this is not legal. The same rule would apply.

Thanks a lot for all the help.

I played HS baseball and now play in a local softball league and umpire from time to time. I dont pretend to know all the rules, but know most of them. apparently i missed the ruling on the runner closest to home at the time of the INT.

to be honest with you, on the play from the initial post, the R3 very well might have been out, b4 R1 scored, if the BR wasnt involved in the play so my thought process was to not punish the defense (by allowing the run to score) bc of an "infraction" by the offense.

Funny thing is, the team at bat never argued the run should score, they only argued that there shouldnt be interference called on the BR. I guess you dont need to know every rule, just more than the players in the game.

[NCASAUmp]

Originally Posted by steveshane67

Thanks a lot for all the help.

I played HS baseball and now play in a local softball league and umpire from time to time. I dont pretend to know all the rules, but know most of them. apparently i missed the ruling on the runner closest to home at the time of the INT.

Hey, we all have to start somewhere, right?

Originally Posted by steveshane67

to be honest with you, on the play from the initial post, the R3 very well might have been out, b4 R1 scored, if the BR wasnt involved in the play so my thought process was to not punish the defense (by allowing the run to score) bc of an "infraction" by the offense.

Sometimes, it's difficult to tell, especially if you're calling a single-umpire game. In time, you'll learn what to look for and when.

Originally Posted by steveshane67

Funny thing is, the team at bat never argued the run should score, they only argued that there shouldnt be interference called on the BR.

I'm not terribly surprised. Players are like lemmings - they follow the ball until it leads them off the cliff.

Originally Posted by steveshane67

I guess you dont need to know every rule, just more than the players in the game.

We all try our best to learn as much as we can, but sometimes, it all boils down to the above statement.

[BretMan]

SS67,

I see that you found your way to a REAL umpire discussion board!

No doubt the answers you get on this forum will be far superior to the player-induced ramblings you find on SoftballFans.com.

Welcome aboard!