Mob at home plate?

[Welpe]

The video leaves little doubt in my mind. Dead ball, out, ejection.

I definitely do not intend to impunge the integrity of this umpire but is but I wonder if that the umpire was trying to avoid ejecting a player in a playoff game?

For our Texas guys, how do you contend with the amount of power the coaches have in controlling who their officials are and making the tough call? I'm sure most have no problem making the right call but it is worth pondering I guess.

[NCASAUmp]

Originally Posted by Welpe

The video leaves little doubt in my mind. Dead ball, out, ejection.

I definitely do not intend to impunge the integrity of this umpire but is but I wonder if that the umpire was trying to avoid ejecting a player in a playoff game?

For our Texas guys, how do you contend with the amount of power the coaches have in controlling who their officials are and making the tough call? I'm sure most have no problem making the right call but it is worth pondering I guess.

I can't speak for NFHS, but ASA is VERY clear on this one. Colliding with a defensive player who has possession of the ball is an out. If it's flagrant (which this definitely was), it's an ejection. No UIC in their right mind will go against you on this one, and if they did, I don't want to work for them.

[Welpe]

Originally Posted by NCASAUmp

I can't speak for NFHS, but ASA is VERY clear on this one. Colliding with a defensive player who has possession of the ball is an out. If it's flagrant (which this definitely was), it's an ejection. No UIC in their right mind will go against you on this one, and if they did, I don't want to work for them.

I was thinking of TASO umpires working NFHS games, not ASA.

[cloverdale]

a poor represention of words ron...train wreck is different than mc....got that now...dont do asa but am joining this year...lots of things to think about...such as catcher postioning...runners lane to plate...ball arrival...and as others have posted...coach down the line and maybe team mates celebrating during live ball on the field...slowdown slowdown slowdown...oh boy!

[Skahtboi]

Originally Posted by Welpe

The video leaves little doubt in my mind. Dead ball, out, ejection.

I definitely do not intend to impunge the integrity of this umpire but is but I wonder if that the umpire was trying to avoid ejecting a player in a playoff game?

For our Texas guys, how do you contend with the amount of power the coaches have in controlling who their officials are and making the tough call? I'm sure most have no problem making the right call but it is worth pondering I guess.

I was unaware that any coach has any control over umpires. Please clarify...

IF you strictly mean that they can choose their playoff umpires, which are the only ones they can choose in most areas, then who cares. Does that alter the way I umpire? Of course not. If they don't like a call I make and don't want me back for the next round, then big deal. There are other schools and games that request neutral umpires that need to be worked. Other than choosing them to work their playoff games, there is no control that any coaches have over the umpires here.

[reccer]

Originally Posted by Skahtboi

I was unaware that any coach has any control over umpires. Please clarify...

IF you strictly mean that they can choose their playoff umpires, which are the only ones they can choose in most areas, then who cares. Does that alter the way I umpire? Of course not. If they don't like a call I make and don't want me back for the next round, then big deal. There are other schools and games that request neutral umpires that need to be worked. Other than choosing them to work their playoff games, there is no control that any coaches have over the umpires here.

Seems to me the ability of a coach to deny your getting to work his/her games is significant control over you. I admire Skahtboi's integrity, but he does live on the outskirts of the 4th largest metropolitan area in the country. I'm sure there are plenty of other playoff games he can work. I suspect this isn't the case in my part of Texas. Also be advised that the Smithson Valley (the blue offensive team in the video) is the regional power and always goes deep into the playoffs. If you want to work the 5A (our largest schools) playoffs in San Antonio, you will have to meet the approval of Coach Daigle.

To give you some local color, I have included a write-up on him from a year ago. He is an excellent softball coach, worthy of his accolades.

Maybe playoff assignments should be controlled by TASO and the coaches removed from the decision process?

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
(from San Antonio newspaper)
She gnashes her teeth, almost as if she's ready to snarl. Her fists begin to tighten, causing her knuckles to turn white.

Before long, with bat in hand, Smithson Valley assistant Lisa Daigle's arms are swinging through the air.

And that's just the feisty 46-year-old while casually talking about softball, a game she has no problem admitting consumes the lives of both her and her husband, Rangers coach Wayne Daigle.

“I just love the game,” she says. “If you're passionate about something, it's a 24-hour deal — and it lives right there, all the time.”

She emphasizes the point with a strong punch to the chest.

“Ah!” she adds. “I love it! I love ball.”

It's a boisterous enthusiasm that is readily apparent during Smithson Valley games. The fist pumps, leg kicks and assortment of other gestures and bodily twists from the Daigles as they roam the baselines are as entertaining to watch as any coaching tandem in the area.

They will lead the Rangers (30-2) against La Joya in the Region IV-5A semifinals in a three-game series beginning at 7:30 tonight in Laredo.

It is Smithson Valley's ninth appearance in the regional semifinals in 11 years.

“The Daigles are a really fired-up bunch of coaches,” junior ace Bailey Watts said.

But the eccentric displays aren't for show.

The Daigles' fervor for the game — which has helped anchor their 22-year marriage — has been their trademark in establishing a fiery atmosphere inside Smithson Valley's dugout.

“That's how we coach,” said Wayne, 61. “When we came here 12 years ago, we didn't do anything different. If anything, because of the success that's come, we feed off it. We're even more about it.”

The approach has worked for the Daigles at all levels.

While playing for Wayne at Sam Houston State in the early 1980s, Lisa and her eventual husband won NAIA and NCAA Division II national championships together. Those championship rings were eventually melted down to form their wedding bands.

And while coaching together, they guided Smithson Valley to the Class 4A state championship in 2001, and also won American Fastpitch Association and National Pro Fastpitch national titles.

“Everybody's got something,” Wayne said. “Old cars, antiques — we're just both into softball.”

These days, with retirement looming closer in his 30th year of coaching, Wayne leaves most of the passionate displays to his wife. It's a role she's so good at that senior catcher Brittany Arredondo, a demonstrative player herself, calls Lisa the team's motivator.

“I like her little ‘Rah!' thing,” said Arredondo, mimicking her coach by flexing her arms inward and adding a few grunts for good measure.

“I have a little bit of that going.”

Such intensity was plainly evident in last week's third-round grudge match against Taft.

Leading 6-0 late in the contest, Lisa sprawled face-up on the dirt behind home plate following a tag at the plate that prevented the Rangers from increasing their lead.

She stayed there for nearly 15 seconds.

She remembered, after all, what had happened in last year's third-round matchup with Taft. The Raiders snatched the one-game playoff with a late rally that erased a four-run deficit in a single inning

Wayne acknowledges he and his wife's animated ways can rub some opponents the wrong way. But Taft coach Scott Libby is not among them.

“If you're not showing any disparagement to the other team while rooting your own team on, then you're doing your job as a coach to keep them fired up,” Libby said. “I see (Wayne) get on his team and root them on, but I can't say I've ever seen him act like he's doing anything against my team.”

Said Wayne: “Our detractors, I've heard them say, ‘It's all about the kids. It's not about you all.' We've never thought it was about us. It is about our kids.

“But that criticism doesn't bother us at all.”

As for the possibility the Daigles might someday become more subdued?

“The day that happens will be the day I get out,” Wayne said. “I'll be writing for a newspaper.”
THE DAIGLES FILE

•AGES: Wayne Daigle 61; Lisa Daigle 46

•YEARS MARRIED: 22

•YEARS AT SMITHSON VALLEY: 12

•DAIGLES' DOMINANCE: Smithson Valley has won 91 of its past 92 district games.

•COACHING HIGHLIGHTS: Wayne Daigle coached Sam Houston State to NAIA and NCAA Division II national championships, and led Nebraska to the national-title game. Together, Wayne and Lisa Daigle have coached Smithson Valley to a Class 4A state championship (2001), and also guided teams to national titles in American Fastpitch Association and National Pro Fastpitch.

•PLAYING HIGHLIGHTS: Lisa Daigle caught four national-championship games at three different levels (NAIA and NCAA Division II while at Sam Houston, NCAA Division I at Nebraska), winning two titles under her eventual husband.

[Welpe]

Originally Posted by Skahtboi

I was unaware that any coach has any control over umpires. Please clarify...

IF you strictly mean that they can choose their playoff umpires, which are the only ones they can choose in most areas, then who cares.

That is what I was referring to. I was under the impression this was also the case in the regular season but perhaps it varies by area.

Again, I am just wondering because it is very different from how things are done here and it is not what I am used to.

[Skahtboi]

Originally Posted by Welpe

That is what I was referring to. I was under the impression this was also the case in the regular season but perhaps it varies by area.

Again, I am just wondering because it is very different from how things are done here and it is not what I am used to.

No here, at least in my part of the state, the regular season is assigned by an assignor. A coach can scratch an umpire, but it seems to be a rare event during the season.

For post season play, they are submitted a list of all qualified umpires (those who have attended the required meetings/training to be eligible for post season), and from that a coach must submit a list of 6-10 umpires he/she most wants to work their playoff games, ranked in order of preference. Or, they have the option of going with neutral umpires who are assigned by the assignor of the chapter that both schools approach to supply the umpires.

So, I don't see that they have all that much control. But, that is just my opinion.

[Welpe]

Got it now. Thanks for the education, Scott.

[topper]

After watching the play several times, I'm not sure I can fault the PU for not judging MC. The runner’s arms are extended forward as to reach for the plate, no lowering of the shoulder as NCASAump has described. It looks like the catcher leaned forward right before the runner arrived which put her more in the path of the diving runner. I can't tell if the catcher had control of the ball, so can't determine INT or OBS, but based of what I saw I would not have had MC. As far as the comments after the game, they could be chalked up to after-the-fact bravado on the player's part and not what she was actually thinking as the play happened.

[RKBUmp]

If you come to the conclusion there is no MC, by the FED case book the play stands.

8-4-3, Situation E - A throw from F9 draws F2 into the base path of R1. In (a), the ball arrives just before R1 and F2 has it in her possession. Contact then occurs between F2 and R1, F2 drops the ball and R1 scores. In (b), contact occurs just prior to F2 catching the ball. In both cases, the contact is not malicious. Ruling: In (a), there is no obstruction or interference. This is viewed simpy as a collision. The run scores. In (b), F2 has commeted obstruction; R1 will be awarded the base she would have reached had there been no obstruction.

[NCASAUmp]

Originally Posted by topper

After watching the play several times, I'm not sure I can fault the PU for not judging MC. The runner’s arms are extended forward as to reach for the plate, no lowering of the shoulder as NCASAump has described. It looks like the catcher leaned forward right before the runner arrived which put her more in the path of the diving runner. I can't tell if the catcher had control of the ball, so can't determine INT or OBS, but based of what I saw I would not have had MC. As far as the comments after the game, they could be chalked up to after-the-fact bravado on the player's part and not what she was actually thinking as the play happened.

I just watched the video again, and I see her arms extended forward, hands going straight for the chest/shoulder area of the catcher. That's not a defensive motion, that's the motion of someone trying to knock someone else over.

I think you and I will just have to agree to disagree on this.