crazy play

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally Posted by jwwashburn

When everyone thinks that the game is tied in the bottom of the 7th but it is actually over, how would anyone(including you) know?

Why would you not want to alert the official scorer? You do so on a timing play.

This play is weird enough that it warrants some action on the part of the umpire.

I look for the clean end of the stick, not the poop covered one. In this case, you will be holding the poop covered stick and denying that it stinks.

Joe in Missouri

You can think whatever you like, I will not have a problem.

Only announce a run scored when appropriate during a play in which the third out was executed. I do not ask a team nor need to know the score and there is no reason to talk to a scorekeeper except to report a substitute or ejection.

[jwwashburn]

Originally Posted by IRISHMAFIA

You can think whatever you like, I will not have a problem.

Only announce a run scored when appropriate during a play in which the third out was executed. I do not ask a team nor need to know the score and there is no reason to talk to a scorekeeper except to report a substitute or ejection.

So, how are you going to know when the game is over? Even if you are not going to communicate with the scorekeeper about this issue, are you at least going to write down how many runs scored in that inning?

I ask again, what if you are going to the bottom of the 7th in a game that is over? Would you even know it was over? If this sitch happens to you, I hope it goes 16

Why make things difficult? I prefer to make thins easy.

Joe In Missouri

[Welpe]

Thanks Mike and Steve...either of those works for me.

I would think that a call of "safe" on the first runner along with the umpire having a different number of outs from the score keeper, somebody is going to figure something out quickly.

[wadeintothem]

You dont need to know the score in the way that coaches, players, and fans do - but it is an aspect of the game that is at times part of umpire a) duties and b) good officiating.

We are responsible for enforcing Run Rules and game ending run situations. We need to know tie games. It is important you understand certain game situations as part of umpiring and being a student of the game. Most often as PU, I keep track of the runs as part of what I do between innings.

It is not a sin to talk to people involved in this game and the level of play (championship/tournament/friendly) may determine how you must approach that. If its a regular joe tourney I may ask the book to run and grab me a cup of coffee in between padding her kids stats. I wouldnt do that in championship play If you do need to talk to the book - talk to the book.

What you CANT do is something horrible like I saw a few weeks back.

Umpire loses count.. goes to the book Book says count is 2-2. Other team is complaining the count is 2-1. He says "We gotta go by the home book - home book says its 2-2, so its 2-2". They say, well they arent the home book, we are. Ump says, "ok counts 2-1".

Meanwhile, he never did go to his partner. That was so bad, it was a little humorous.

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally Posted by jwwashburn

So, how are you going to know when the game is over? Even if you are not going to communicate with the scorekeeper about this issue, are you at least going to write down how many runs scored in that inning?

I ask again, what if you are going to the bottom of the 7th in a game that is over? Would you even know it was over? If this sitch happens to you, I hope it goes 16

Why make things difficult? I prefer to make thins easy.

Joe In Missouri

The winning team will tell me when there is the possibility of a "run rule" application or when the game is over. Sometimes, even the losing team will tell you, unsolicited.

Even in local games, the teams will tell you when there is an issue. If there is an issue, that is the scorekeepers' job to get it straight, not mine.

BTW, I never said I wasn't aware of the score, I just don't need it or ask for it. Teams give you all sorts of data and don't even know it if you are paying attention to what is going on inside the fences.

Or I can just look at the scoreboard.

Back to the play. The once-taught, still used mechanic on plays like this or an "assumed out, but safe" on the front end of a double play was for the umpire to reiterate the unanticipated call after the fact if the umpire believes it is necessary.

If a team cannot figure out, "safe, no tag!" means the runner wasn't out, maybe they need to find another sandlot in which to play.

[jmkupka]

Not questioning your mechanics, Mike (ok I guess I am), but... if there's no touch of the plate and no tag, why would I not have a "no call"? Is it because F2 was standing on the plate?

Seems to me that, in this case, calling R1 safe after she passes the plate would call attention to the fact that she didn't touch it.

That's how I'd've handled it... obviously wrong... trying to improve my skills.

[Welpe]

In ASA, that is how the umpires are instructed to call the play. I'm paraphrasing the passage: If there is a missed tag and the plate is missed, the plate umpire should hesitate slightly to see if there is an attempt to tag out the runner. If there is no attempt, the umpire should declare the runner safe.

An initial no call indicates that you have nothing but if the defense does not attempt to retire the runner, you have to indicate in some manner that the runner acquired the base.

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally Posted by jmkupka

Not questioning your mechanics, Mike (ok I guess I am), but... if there's no touch of the plate and no tag, why would I not have a "no call"? Is it because F2 was standing on the plate?

Because you are umpiring softball.

Seems to me that, in this case, calling R1 safe after she passes the plate would call attention to the fact that she didn't touch it.

No, more likely to bring the attention to the point that it was not a force play.

That's how I'd've handled it... obviously wrong... trying to improve my skills.

(ASA 8.3.B) "When a runner passes a base, the runner is considered to have touched that base."

So, lacking a tag on a non-force play, the runner is indeed safe once s/he passes home plate. Doesn't mean the defense cannot appeal the runner missing the base.

[CecilOne]

R1 should be called out for waiting so long.

[youngump]

Originally Posted by IRISHMAFIA

Because you are umpiring softball.
So, lacking a tag on a non-force play, the runner is indeed safe once s/he passes home plate. Doesn't mean the defense cannot appeal the runner missing the base.

As I read the OP and this question, the missed tag was quite a ways up the third base line. Since there was no play at the plate, why would you make any signal at the plate? So you'd signal R1 safe on the missed tag and then make no call whatsoever at the plate, no?
________
Jomtien condos

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally Posted by youngump

As I read the OP and this question, the missed tag was quite a ways up the third base line.

IF you read the OP, you would notice it clearly stated there was "No tag" which is why the runner is not out.

Since there was no play at the plate, why would you make any signal at the plate?

That is because there WAS a play at the plate which was also clearly stated in the OP.

So you'd signal R1 safe on the missed tag and then make no call whatsoever at the plate, no?