The Official Forum  

Go Back   The Official Forum > Softball
Register FAQ Community Calendar Today's Posts Search

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Rate Thread Display Modes
  #1 (permalink)  
Old Sun May 24, 2009, 09:18pm
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Posts: 83
crazy play

Had a weird play this past weekend....I was on the bases so it was really my partner that had the play....

ASA Fast pitch

R1 on 3B, R2 on 2B, and R3 on 1B (bases loaded)
0 outs
Batter hits a ground ball to second.
Second baseman throws to first for the out.
R1 breaks for home. The throw from first is caught by the catcher who is standing on home. No tag is ever made on the runner. The runner seeing the catcher catch the ball and thinking he is out, slows down and walks/jogs around the plate never touching it.
Meanwhile, the catcher throws to third trying to get the next runner.
The ball goes over third and into the outfield and the runner continues home and scores.
It is not until after the play is pretty much done that R1 goes into the dugout.
What do we have?
A) Is R1 safe unless an appeal is made that he missed home.
B)Is R1 out when he enters the dugout even though a runner behind him scored or
C) is R2 out for scoring before R1 therefore passing a runner?

We ended up calling R1 out and allowing R2 to score, but I don't think we got it right.
Reply With Quote
  #2 (permalink)  
Old Sun May 24, 2009, 09:29pm
Administrator
 
Join Date: Sep 1999
Location: Toledo, Ohio, U.S.A.
Posts: 8,140
Quote:
Originally Posted by umpharp View Post
Had a weird play this past weekend....I was on the bases so it was really my partner that had the play....

ASA Fast pitch

R1 on 3B, R2 on 2B, and R3 on 1B (bases loaded)
0 outs
Batter hits a ground ball to second.
Second baseman throws to first for the out.
R1 breaks for home. The throw from first is caught by the catcher who is standing on home. No tag is ever made on the runner. The runner seeing the catcher catch the ball and thinking he is out, slows down and walks/jogs around the plate never touching it.
Meanwhile, the catcher throws to third trying to get the next runner.
The ball goes over third and into the outfield and the runner continues home and scores.
It is not until after the play is pretty much done that R1 goes into the dugout.
What do we have?
A) Is R1 safe unless an appeal is made that he missed home.
B)Is R1 out when he enters the dugout even though a runner behind him scored or
C) is R2 out for scoring before R1 therefore passing a runner?

We ended up calling R1 out and allowing R2 to score, but I don't think we got it right.

This had to be a girls' game correct? What age group?

MTD, Sr.
__________________
Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.
Trumbull Co. (Warren, Ohio) Bkb. Off. Assn.
Wood Co. (Bowling Green, Ohio) Bkb. Off. Assn.
Ohio Assn. of Basketball Officials
International Assn. of Approved Bkb. Officials
Ohio High School Athletic Association
Toledo, Ohio
Reply With Quote
  #3 (permalink)  
Old Sun May 24, 2009, 09:37pm
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2000
Location: USA
Posts: 14,565
Quote:
Originally Posted by umpharp View Post
Had a weird play this past weekend....I was on the bases so it was really my partner that had the play....

ASA Fast pitch

R1 on 3B, R2 on 2B, and R3 on 1B (bases loaded)
0 outs
Batter hits a ground ball to second.
Second baseman throws to first for the out.
R1 breaks for home. The throw from first is caught by the catcher who is standing on home. No tag is ever made on the runner. The runner seeing the catcher catch the ball and thinking he is out, slows down and walks/jogs around the plate never touching it.
Meanwhile, the catcher throws to third trying to get the next runner.
The ball goes over third and into the outfield and the runner continues home and scores.
It is not until after the play is pretty much done that R1 goes into the dugout.
What do we have?
A) Is R1 safe unless an appeal is made that he missed home.
Absolutely

Quote:
B)Is R1 out when he enters the dugout even though a runner behind him scored or
No and one has nothing to do with the other.

Quote:
C) is R2 out for scoring before R1 therefore passing a runner?
No, since that never happened.

Quote:
We ended up calling R1 out and allowing R2 to score, but I don't think we got it right.
That is correct, you didn't get it right. You have no basis upon which to rule R1 out without a proper appeal by the defense.
Reply With Quote
  #4 (permalink)  
Old Mon May 25, 2009, 12:26am
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: NC
Posts: 4,361
Quote:
Originally Posted by umpharp View Post
Had a weird play this past weekend....I was on the bases so it was really my partner that had the play....

ASA Fast pitch

R1 on 3B, R2 on 2B, and R3 on 1B (bases loaded)
0 outs
Batter hits a ground ball to second.
Second baseman throws to first for the out.
R1 breaks for home. The throw from first is caught by the catcher who is standing on home. No tag is ever made on the runner. The runner seeing the catcher catch the ball and thinking he is out, slows down and walks/jogs around the plate never touching it.
Meanwhile, the catcher throws to third trying to get the next runner.
The ball goes over third and into the outfield and the runner continues home and scores.
It is not until after the play is pretty much done that R1 goes into the dugout.
What do we have?
A) Is R1 safe unless an appeal is made that he missed home.
Yes. ASA 8-3-B.

Quote:
Originally Posted by umpharp
B)Is R1 out when he enters the dugout even though a runner behind him scored or
No. What you're probably thinking of is that a runner may not return to touch a missed base if a following runner (in this case, R2) has scored (ASA 8-3-G). Once R2 scored, R1 can do nothing but pray the defense does not appeal the missed plate. But if (and only if) the defense appeals... Bang, you've got an out.

Quote:
Originally Posted by umpharp
C) is R2 out for scoring before R1 therefore passing a runner?
Nope. No appeal was made by the defense, so no out can be called.

Quote:
Originally Posted by umpharp
We ended up calling R1 out and allowing R2 to score, but I don't think we got it right.
Hate to say it, but you're right. Well, about not being right, that is.

It happens, you live, you learn.
__________________
Dave

I haven't decided if I should call it from the dugout or the outfield. Apparently, both have really great views!

Screw green, it ain't easy being blue!

I won't be coming here that much anymore. I might check in now and again.
Reply With Quote
  #5 (permalink)  
Old Mon May 25, 2009, 08:56am
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Posts: 83
thanks guys

and Dave you are right...I did get mesed up on the whole not able to touch after the next runner touches the plate thing.

Its funny, I knew when we were making the call that it wasn't correct, but my partner and I both for some reason thought we should have an out.

The teams were cool with it.....and we moved on.
Reply With Quote
  #6 (permalink)  
Old Mon May 25, 2009, 10:44pm
Archaic Power Monger
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Houston, TX
Posts: 5,983
How would the mechanics on this play work? The same as if the catcher missed the tag and the runner missed the plate, hesitate with no call and then rule the runner safe, or in this case, declare both runners safe?
__________________
Even if you’re on the right track, you’ll get run over if you just sit there. - Will Rogers
Reply With Quote
  #7 (permalink)  
Old Tue May 26, 2009, 07:28am
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2000
Location: USA
Posts: 14,565
Quote:
Originally Posted by Welpe View Post
How would the mechanics on this play work? The same as if the catcher missed the tag and the runner missed the plate, hesitate with no call and then rule the runner safe, or in this case, declare both runners safe?
Wait until R1 passes the plate and verbalize "safe" while moving into position for subsequent play. As the PU with multiple runners, you are not moving far away from the plate area, so this shouldn't be that difficult. Once R2 crosses the plate, R1's subsequent actions become irrelevant to any possible appeal, so you can now concentrate on the rest of the play unfolding in front of you.
Reply With Quote
  #8 (permalink)  
Old Tue May 26, 2009, 12:28pm
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Woodstock, GA; Atlanta area
Posts: 2,822
I'm adding "No tag!!", then "Safe" on R1. Doesn't sound like there was a play on R2, so no call made at all on that runner crossing the plate.

Then, wait for the appeal; if none, move on with two runs scoring.
__________________
Steve
ASA/ISF/NCAA/NFHS/PGF
Reply With Quote
  #9 (permalink)  
Old Wed May 27, 2009, 03:05pm
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: The Land Of The Free and The Home Of The Brave (MD/DE)
Posts: 6,425
R1 should be called out for waiting so long.
__________________
Officiating takes more than OJT.
It's not our jobs to invent rulings to fit our personal idea of what should and should not be.
Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks


Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Crazy play Johnny Ringo Basketball 16 Mon Jan 07, 2008 12:57am
Crazy play Alligator Bag Baseball 22 Fri Sep 12, 2003 12:24am
Crazy play stan-MI Basketball 17 Mon Feb 03, 2003 01:25pm
crazy play bpf Basketball 20 Thu Feb 28, 2002 12:34am
Crazy play Alligator Bag Baseball 3 Fri Apr 14, 2000 10:45am


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 12:19pm.



Search Engine Friendly URLs by vBSEO 3.3.0 RC1