crazy play

[umpharp]

Had a weird play this past weekend....I was on the bases so it was really my partner that had the play....

ASA Fast pitch

R1 on 3B, R2 on 2B, and R3 on 1B (bases loaded)
0 outs
Batter hits a ground ball to second.
Second baseman throws to first for the out.
R1 breaks for home. The throw from first is caught by the catcher who is standing on home. No tag is ever made on the runner. The runner seeing the catcher catch the ball and thinking he is out, slows down and walks/jogs around the plate never touching it.
Meanwhile, the catcher throws to third trying to get the next runner.
The ball goes over third and into the outfield and the runner continues home and scores.
It is not until after the play is pretty much done that R1 goes into the dugout.
What do we have?
A) Is R1 safe unless an appeal is made that he missed home.
B)Is R1 out when he enters the dugout even though a runner behind him scored or
C) is R2 out for scoring before R1 therefore passing a runner?

We ended up calling R1 out and allowing R2 to score, but I don't think we got it right.

[Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.]

Originally Posted by umpharp

Had a weird play this past weekend....I was on the bases so it was really my partner that had the play....

ASA Fast pitch

R1 on 3B, R2 on 2B, and R3 on 1B (bases loaded)
0 outs
Batter hits a ground ball to second.
Second baseman throws to first for the out.
R1 breaks for home. The throw from first is caught by the catcher who is standing on home. No tag is ever made on the runner. The runner seeing the catcher catch the ball and thinking he is out, slows down and walks/jogs around the plate never touching it.
Meanwhile, the catcher throws to third trying to get the next runner.
The ball goes over third and into the outfield and the runner continues home and scores.
It is not until after the play is pretty much done that R1 goes into the dugout.
What do we have?
A) Is R1 safe unless an appeal is made that he missed home.
B)Is R1 out when he enters the dugout even though a runner behind him scored or
C) is R2 out for scoring before R1 therefore passing a runner?

We ended up calling R1 out and allowing R2 to score, but I don't think we got it right.

This had to be a girls' game correct? What age group?

MTD, Sr.

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally Posted by umpharp

Had a weird play this past weekend....I was on the bases so it was really my partner that had the play....

ASA Fast pitch

R1 on 3B, R2 on 2B, and R3 on 1B (bases loaded)
0 outs
Batter hits a ground ball to second.
Second baseman throws to first for the out.
R1 breaks for home. The throw from first is caught by the catcher who is standing on home. No tag is ever made on the runner. The runner seeing the catcher catch the ball and thinking he is out, slows down and walks/jogs around the plate never touching it.
Meanwhile, the catcher throws to third trying to get the next runner.
The ball goes over third and into the outfield and the runner continues home and scores.
It is not until after the play is pretty much done that R1 goes into the dugout.
What do we have?
A) Is R1 safe unless an appeal is made that he missed home.

Absolutely

B)Is R1 out when he enters the dugout even though a runner behind him scored or

No and one has nothing to do with the other.

C) is R2 out for scoring before R1 therefore passing a runner?

No, since that never happened.

We ended up calling R1 out and allowing R2 to score, but I don't think we got it right.

That is correct, you didn't get it right. You have no basis upon which to rule R1 out without a proper appeal by the defense.

[NCASAUmp]

Originally Posted by umpharp

Had a weird play this past weekend....I was on the bases so it was really my partner that had the play....

ASA Fast pitch

R1 on 3B, R2 on 2B, and R3 on 1B (bases loaded)
0 outs
Batter hits a ground ball to second.
Second baseman throws to first for the out.
R1 breaks for home. The throw from first is caught by the catcher who is standing on home. No tag is ever made on the runner. The runner seeing the catcher catch the ball and thinking he is out, slows down and walks/jogs around the plate never touching it.
Meanwhile, the catcher throws to third trying to get the next runner.
The ball goes over third and into the outfield and the runner continues home and scores.
It is not until after the play is pretty much done that R1 goes into the dugout.
What do we have?
A) Is R1 safe unless an appeal is made that he missed home.

Yes. ASA 8-3-B.

Originally Posted by umpharp

B)Is R1 out when he enters the dugout even though a runner behind him scored or

No. What you're probably thinking of is that a runner may not return to touch a missed base if a following runner (in this case, R2) has scored (ASA 8-3-G). Once R2 scored, R1 can do nothing but pray the defense does not appeal the missed plate. But if (and only if) the defense appeals... Bang, you've got an out.

Originally Posted by umpharp

C) is R2 out for scoring before R1 therefore passing a runner?

Nope. No appeal was made by the defense, so no out can be called.

Originally Posted by umpharp

We ended up calling R1 out and allowing R2 to score, but I don't think we got it right.

Hate to say it, but you're right. Well, about not being right, that is.

It happens, you live, you learn.

[umpharp]

thanks guys

and Dave you are right...I did get mesed up on the whole not able to touch after the next runner touches the plate thing.

Its funny, I knew when we were making the call that it wasn't correct, but my partner and I both for some reason thought we should have an out.

The teams were cool with it.....and we moved on.

[Welpe]

How would the mechanics on this play work? The same as if the catcher missed the tag and the runner missed the plate, hesitate with no call and then rule the runner safe, or in this case, declare both runners safe?

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally Posted by Welpe

How would the mechanics on this play work? The same as if the catcher missed the tag and the runner missed the plate, hesitate with no call and then rule the runner safe, or in this case, declare both runners safe?

Wait until R1 passes the plate and verbalize "safe" while moving into position for subsequent play. As the PU with multiple runners, you are not moving far away from the plate area, so this shouldn't be that difficult. Once R2 crosses the plate, R1's subsequent actions become irrelevant to any possible appeal, so you can now concentrate on the rest of the play unfolding in front of you.

[AtlUmpSteve]

I'm adding "No tag!!", then "Safe" on R1. Doesn't sound like there was a play on R2, so no call made at all on that runner crossing the plate.

Then, wait for the appeal; if none, move on with two runs scoring.

[jwwashburn]

Originally Posted by AtlUmpSteve

I'm adding "No tag!!", then "Safe" on R1. Doesn't sound like there was a play on R2, so no call made at all on that runner crossing the plate.

Then, wait for the appeal; if none, move on with two runs scoring.

Would you tel the official scorer? Would you wait until a pitch had been thrown to tell the official scorer?

I think you would have to tell the scorer or there would be a mess later on. However, if you tell him before a pitch is thrown, you put the runner in jeopardy if someone who has half a brain hears you. I hope this play never happens to me.

Joe in Missouri

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally Posted by jwwashburn

Would you tel the official scorer? Would you wait until a pitch had been thrown to tell the official scorer?

I think you would have to tell the scorer or there would be a mess later on. However, if you tell him before a pitch is thrown, you put the runner in jeopardy if someone who has half a brain hears you. I hope this play never happens to me.

Joe in Missouri

Tell the scorer what? Already called the runner safe and will probably offer the number of outs prior to the next pitch.

[jwwashburn]

In a sitch like this, the defense may not know the run has score until you tell them the # of outs. It is even money the scorer will be clueless, as well.

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally Posted by jwwashburn

In a sitch like this, the defense may not know the run has score until you tell them the # of outs. It is even money the scorer will be clueless, as well.

Then Mama Gump was right, Stupid is as Stupid Does. Sorry, but that is not going to be my issue and if they don't figure out what is going on......

[jwwashburn]

....Then you will be holding a bag of crap later on unless you know how many runs scored in that inning and make note of it.

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally Posted by jwwashburn

....Then you will be holding a bag of crap later on unless you know how many runs scored in that inning and make note of it.

No, I will not.

[jwwashburn]

When everyone thinks that the game is tied in the bottom of the 7th but it is actually over, how would anyone(including you) know?

Why would you not want to alert the official scorer? You do so on a timing play.

This play is weird enough that it warrants some action on the part of the umpire.

I look for the clean end of the stick, not the poop covered one. In this case, you will be holding the poop covered stick and denying that it stinks.

Joe in Missouri