NFHS Test question

[youngump]

So the test has a question to the effect of whether you can substitute for a courtesy runner.

I came to the conclusion that you could not by reading 8-9-6 which states that once a courtesy runner is on base the catcher or pitcher cannot replace her. And further that a courtesy runner can't run for another courtesy runner. Apparently that conclusion isn't what the NFHS folks came up with. Can somebody please point me at the section in the rules I should read to see what they were thinking?
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[Stu Clary]

You may want to re-read 8-9-6. Also, check out 8-9-6-f in the case book.

[Tru_in_Blu]

If the courtesy runner is injured or disqualified, the player for whom she is running (pitcher or catcher) may return to run the bases or a legal substitute may be entered.

If a substitute is made, it is for the pitcher or catcher. Re-entry rules must then be followed.

What I'm not sure about is if a courtesy runner leaves the game due to injury or blood rule, and later on in the game she is OK again [i.e. blood bandaged or clothing changed or sore ankle OK and was not rendered unconscious] can she still serve as a courtesy runner or even as a legal substitute?

Ted

[argodad]

Originally Posted by Tru_in_Blu

If the courtesy runner is injured or disqualified, the player for whom she is running (pitcher or catcher) may return to run the bases or a legal substitute may be entered.

If a substitute is made, it is for the pitcher or catcher. Re-entry rules must then be followed.

What I'm not sure about is if a courtesy runner leaves the game due to injury or blood rule, and later on in the game she is OK again [i.e. blood bandaged or clothing changed or sore ankle OK and was not rendered unconscious] can she still serve as a courtesy runner or even as a legal substitute?

Ted

As long as she is still eligible to be a CR (hasn't otherwise played in the game), she may still be the CR for the position she CR'd for in the first place.

[youngump]

Originally Posted by Stu Clary

You may want to re-read 8-9-6. Also, check out 8-9-6-f in the case book.

The case book play is clear enough. But is there any actual rule in the book that supports it? I'm just not seeing it in 8-9-6.
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[Az.Ump]

youngump,

Is there anything in 8-9 that is an exception to 3-3 arts 2 and 5?

Paul

[youngump]

Originally Posted by Az.Ump

youngump,

Is there anything in 8-9 that is an exception to 3-3 arts 2 and 5?

Paul

I accept that the rules allow one to substitute for the pitcher/catcher. But that does not mean that it's legal to put the subsituted player on base. 8-9-6 makes it clear that the pitcher could not return to base so why should the substitute have more rights than the player being replaced? (Besides the case play which as noted is very clear.)
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[Dakota]

A couple of points: 8-9-6 says two things about replacing the CR on bases (barring injury):

1) The player the CR is running for may not replace the CR on base, and
2) The CR may not be replaced by a CR.

The rule does not say the CR cannot be replaced by ANYONE, only these two things, above, may not happen. That, of course, leaves replacing the CR with an eligible sub, commonly called a pinch runner. The only question remaining is, who is the pinch runner subbing for? That, of course, is for the player currently in that position in the batting order, or, the player being run for by the CR. The original CR still has not legally entered the game, except as a CR.

[ronald]

Kind of hard to follow the converstation with out posting what you are talking about.

I take it that NFHS says you can substitue for the courtesy runner. Is that correct?

[Dakota]

The case book play and the rules are referenced. Do you not have an NFHS rule book and case book? And, yes, the NFHS case play says a pinch runner for the CR is legal, and that the pitcher (who was being run for in the case play) has left the game.

[Tru_in_Blu]

Between this string and a newer one on when a player actually leaves the game, I'd like to touch upon the CR piece again.

A couple of replies earlier said that if the CR became injured, she could be replaced by either the player she was running for in the first place [and not affect that player's status] or a legal substitute, i.e. a pinch runner. The pinch runner would cause the pitcher or catcher for whom she is running to leave the game. Said replaced player could re-enter if that was her first time out of the game.

Now back to the courtesy runner. Since she hasn't been in the game in a capacity other than CR, I think I'm hearing that if she's OK later in the game she could be a CR again [for her original player matchup] or enter the game in any other position/batting slot as a substitute.

I guess my agita comes from the injury rule where a player cannot come back into the game [excepting if it was a blood rule issue].

Thanx for any clarity. Either ASA or NFHS.

Ted

[Dakota]

Originally Posted by Tru_in_Blu

... the injury rule where a player cannot come back into the game...

There is no such rule. An injured player may certainly re-enter later in the game if the player has a re-entry remaining (exception: NFHS where the injured player was rendered unconscious). Don't generalize the shorthanded rule to all injury situations. In ASA, if a team goes shorthanded, the player that left the game (for whatever reason - injury, dance lessons, grandmother's birthday,...) may not re-enter, unless the team played shorthanded temporarily under the blood rule.

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally Posted by Tru_in_Blu

Now back to the courtesy runner. Since she hasn't been in the game in a capacity other than CR, I think I'm hearing that if she's OK later in the game she could be a CR again [for her original player matchup] or enter the game in any other position/batting slot as a substitute.

Agree with the general response, but would like to point out that the CR is "matched up" with a position, not a particular player.

[Tru_in_Blu]

Thanx Dakota - I probably was generalizing a bit too much. In the back of my mind I was thinking about the shorthanded rule and someone who might have left the game. Clearly, if a team still had the option of a CR, and that player was hurt and left the game, it would not affect the batting order or defensive positions.

Thanx Irish - yes, not a specific player matchup as I wrote. It could be a different player in a different part of the batting order later in the game. Key is the player who last played the position and earned her own way on base.

Ted

[ronald]

Do not carry my casebook with me. Have to go to public library to use internet.

Usually on the BB board, posters give a reference and post it. That is my recollection.