Once the runner stops at a base for any reason

[Dakota]

ASA Rule 8-7-T-2 is partially quoted in the title...

Situation being discussed on the Fed board, and I don't remember it ever coming up before.

One out, runner on 1B. B hits a long fly ball to LF. R1 is between 2B & 3B when the ball is caught. R1 returns to 1B, but misses 2B along the way. The defense returns the ball to F1 in the circle, who holds the ball not making any play while the runner is returning to touch 2B. The runner touches 2B and immediately heads back toward 1B.

Did the runner's touch of 2B constitute a stop at 2B, and is the runner now out on a look-back violation?

My reasoning is even though the runner (by the laws of physics if nothing else) did technically stop (in order to reverse direction), she did not stop AT the base, she just reversed direction, so it is not a LBR violation.

Consider this variation: R1, in returning to touch 2B, overruns slightly and THEN reverses direction. That, clearly, would not be a LBR violation.

[youngump]

Originally Posted by Dakota

ASA Rule 8-7-T-2 is partially quoted in the title...

Situation being discussed on the Fed board, and I don't remember it ever coming up before.

One out, runner on 1B. B hits a long fly ball to LF. R1 is between 2B & 3B when the ball is caught. R1 returns to 1B, but misses 2B along the way. The defense returns the ball to F1 in the circle, who holds the ball not making any play while the runner is returning to touch 2B. The runner touches 2B and immediately heads back toward 1B.

Did the runner's touch of 2B constitute a stop at 2B, and is the runner now out on a look-back violation?

My reasoning is even though the runner (by the laws of physics if nothing else) did technically stop (in order to reverse direction), she did not stop AT the base, she just reversed direction, so it is not a LBR violation.

Consider this variation: R1, in returning to touch 2B, overruns slightly and THEN reverses direction. That, clearly, would not be a LBR violation.

We discussed it a little bit in regards to the question that started the thread on the Fed board.
Personally, I don't think the intent of the rule was to stop offensive plays in progress by looking at all the instantaneous velocities of the runner. I think it was to allow the pitcher to focus on pitching. Absent direction otherwise, I won't make this kind of a call unless the runner is stopped long enough for me to realize they've stopped.
________
IntimateAngela

[Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.]

Originally Posted by Dakota

ASA Rule 8-7-T-2 is partially quoted in the title...

Situation being discussed on the Fed board, and I don't remember it ever coming up before.

One out, runner on 1B. B hits a long fly ball to LF. R1 is between 2B & 3B when the ball is caught. R1 returns to 1B, but misses 2B along the way. The defense returns the ball to F1 in the circle, who holds the ball not making any play while the runner is returning to touch 2B. The runner touches 2B and immediately heads back toward 1B.

Did the runner's touch of 2B constitute a stop at 2B, and is the runner now out on a look-back violation?

My reasoning is even though the runner (by the laws of physics if nothing else) did technically stop (in order to reverse direction), she did not stop AT the base, she just reversed direction, so it is not a LBR violation.

Consider this variation: R1, in returning to touch 2B, overruns slightly and THEN reverses direction. That, clearly, would not be a LBR violation.

Dakota:

I am going to say that the LBR does not apply here because the runner is doing what she is supposed be doing per rule. BUT, my question why isn't F1 throwing to F3 to retire the runner (active appeal, the umpires do not need to be notified by F1; F1 is giving the runner a free pass to return to first base.

MTD, Sr.

[Dakota]

Originally Posted by Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.

...BUT, my question why isn't F1 throwing to F3 to retire the runner (active appeal, the umpires do not need to be notified by F1; F1 is giving the runner a free pass to return to first base.

MTD, Sr.

I dunno... maybe because otherwise that would spoil the situation for rules discussion purposes... or, maybe it is 10U?

[Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.]

Originally Posted by Dakota

or, maybe it is 10U?

Not maybe. It WAS 10U.

MTD, Sr.

[Tru_in_Blu]

I, too, have seen some odd plays at the 10U and even 12U levels. I think after 12U the girls start getting more intuitive about the game and know what they should be doing. That's in general - also do some men's, women's, and adult co-ed where a lot af players are clueless. Probably because they've only been playing for a season or three.

In this thread, if a girl left early from 1B and a fly ball was caught and the runner somehow ended up on third base [legally touching 2B along the way] I'd call nothing if the runner was finding her way back to 1B. If she stopped and 2B along the way, and the coach is yelling [still] to get back to 1B, I'd allow her to go i.e. NOT calling her out for leaving a base early. She has not yet completed her baserunning responsibilities and if the pitcher is holding the ball in the circle, shame on her and her coaches who should be yelling at HER to throw the ball to 1B for the appeal.

Now a tricky twist. If the runner is still on third, standing there, the pitcher takes her position on the pitcher's plate for the next pitch, and at that moment the coach instructs the runner on 3B to head back to 1B, I think I'd call her out then. If she just stayed there and allowed the pitcher to complete the pitch, that would eliminate an appeal option by the defense.

I work a couple of leages with young players and they have a 6-run limit per inning. Once a team scores 6, they go on defense. One wrinkle is that if the bases are loaded and there are two outs, continuation could allow the 3 BRs and the batter to score [potentially resulting in 9 runs for the half inning]. So with 2 outs and 5 runs already in, the coaches will tell the runners to keep running. A lot of times errors are made and runs score. Sometimes the defense throws the ball to the pitcher in the circle thinking this will automatically stop runners from advancing. As long as all runners are moving, the pitcher holding the ball in the circle does nothing. The pitcher might stand there with the ball with a perplexed look on her face wondering why 2, 3, 4 runs have just scored.

I understand the rule is there to prevent blowout games and discouraging players. But it's difficult to get the girls to understand they why of it.

Ted

[3afan]

that why any type of "continuation" rule is dumb .... 5/6 runs - period - works best!