Ground Rule Double

[MHepner]

Hepner again. Let's try a few more scenarios on the ground rule double. One response said the defense must be allowed an opportunity to play the ball. OK. Runner on first, batter hits a fly ball that the outfielder is camped under. The outfielder, with the opportunity to make the catch, lets it fall and the ball bounces over the fence. The runner on first has scored and the batter is halfway around third. The defense had ample opportunity to play the ball.
Situation 2: Bottom of the ninth inning, bases loaded, the batting team trails by two. The batter hits a flare into left field that rolls slowly toward the fence. The left fielder slips. As he recovers, he notices the runner on first is around third and ready to score and gives up on the ball feeling the game is over. The ball keeps rolling as the batter scores and at the last moment a) hits a rock, goes over the fence; b) bounces into the ivy; c) goes under the fence. Again, the defense had ample opporunity to field the ball. Why penalize the offense when all that happened is while the ball was still in live play. I think if you research further, the true meaning of ground rule double is that the ball becomes dead when it goes out of play. 99 percent of the time, a batter is not going to reach first, nor a runner the next base before it becomes a dead ball. If you ask Major League umpires, I feel you'll get a different response on the situations I presented.
Thanks, Marty

[SamNVa]

Sorry Marty,

Even in MLB, if the ball goes out of play off of the bat, it is a GRD and the ooffense is limited to two bases from the base heldat the time of the pitch. The only way the offense can get more than that is if the batter has passed 1st base before the defense releases a throw that ends up in DBT.

SamC

[whiskers_ump]

Originally posted by MHepner
Hepner again. Let's try a few more scenarios on the ground rule double. One response said the defense must be allowed an opportunity to play the ball. OK. Runner on first, batter hits a fly ball that the outfielder is camped under. The outfielder, with the opportunity to make the catch, lets it fall and the ball bounces over the fence. The runner on first has scored and the batter is halfway around third. The defense had ample opportunity to play the ball.
Situation 2: Bottom of the ninth inning, bases loaded, the batting team trails by two. The batter hits a flare into left field that rolls slowly toward the fence. The left fielder slips. As he recovers, he notices the runner on first is around third and ready to score and gives up on the ball feeling the game is over. The ball keeps rolling as the batter scores and at the last moment a) hits a rock, goes over the fence; b) bounces into the ivy; c) goes under the fence. Again, the defense had ample opporunity to field the ball. Why penalize the offense when all that happened is while the ball was still in live play. I think if you research further, the true meaning of ground rule double is that the ball becomes dead when it goes out of play. 99 percent of the time, a batter is not going to reach first, nor a runner the next base before it becomes a dead ball. If you ask Major League umpires, I feel you'll get a different response on the situations I presented.
Thanks, Marty

Marty,

I will not attempt to answer for MLU's. However, you posted on the softball
side of the board and here is ASA's Rule on GRD which was cited in earlier post
and now printed.

Rule 8 Sec 6. Runners are entitled to advance without liability to be put out.

[B]QUOTE: ASA Rule 8 Sec 6 I. "When a fair ball bounces over or rolls under
or through a fence or any designated boundary of the playing field. Also when it
deflects off of a defensive player and goes out of play in foul territory, deflects off
a runner or umpire and goes out of play after having passed an infielder excluding the
pitcher and provided no other infielder had a chance to make an out.[[B]

EFFECT: The ball is dead and all runners are awarded TWO bases from the time of the pitch.


glen

[MHepner]

I'd like to present another ground rule double scenario.

Bottom of the ninth inning, bases loaded and the home team trails by two runs. With a 3-2 count, the batter flares a hit into left field. The left fielder, who has ample time to play the ball, slips in his attempt to make the play. Knowing the runners are off with the pitch, the left fielder sees the runner from first about to score what he thinks is the winning run and gives up on the ball. The runner from first scores, but meanwhile the ball keeps rolling in fair territory, then a) bounces into the ivy; b) rolls under the fence; c) bounces over the fence. Is it still a GRD and the runner on first returned to third? Or is that runner allowed to score? What I believe is the ground rule double is based on the ball going out of playing being dead. 99 percent of the time, a batter will not reach first or the runner the next base before the ball bounces out of play. Therefore the ground rule double. But if the ball is still live while the action of the runners is in process, those runners should be awarded their proper bases.

[Steve M]

Marty,
Even in your scenario, that is still a ground rule double and everybody gets two bases from the time of the pitch.

Steve M

[greymule]

Guys, stop trying to concoct situations where extra bases are awarded on a GRD.

If somebody manages to hit a ball so that he runs entirely around the bases and then sits down in the dugout and gets himself a cold drink but then the ball rolls out of play, he has to go back to 2B. IT'S STILL A DOUBLE!

If with some Miken Super Ultra Titanium Atomic Blaster he hits a ball 600 feet up in the air and manages to get around the bases before the ball comes down, but it then bounces over the fence, he has to go back to 2B. IT'S STILL A DOUBLE!

[bluezebra]

"What if the BR became a runner before the ball entered DBT? Would that umpire then award that player 3B?"

The batter becomes a BATTER/RUNNER as soon as he/she hits a fair ball, gets a base on balls, or may attempt to advance on a missed third strike. And, as others have said, it's TWO bases from the TIME OF THE PITCH!

Bob

[Del-Blue]

I can't believe everyone can't understand this rule. Or Don't want to understand it. It IS that SIMPLE.

Two bases from the pitch when the ball goes into DBT off the bat.

Now if the player fielding the ball throws,kicks or causes the ball to go into DBT intentionally It is still two bases, but then it is two bases from the last base touched at the time the ball goes into DBT

[Dakota]

Originally posted by Del-Blue
I can't believe everyone can't understand this rule. Or Don't want to understand it.

Or, maybe they are taking to heart the precedence set by the NJ Supreme Court - it doesn't matter what the rule says, you go by what it "fair."

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally posted by Dakota

Or, maybe they are taking to heart the precedence set by the NJ Supreme Court - it doesn't matter what the rule says, you go by what it "fair."

The NJ bench has been known to ignore laws in there determination of what they think it should be. I think the entire state government in New Jersey should just save the money by closing up and going home, the courts are now in control.

[greymule]

I've lived in New Jersey all my life, and this state is sickening when it comes to the courts ignoring the law (and U.S. Senators, too—before Torricelli, there was Abscam Harrison Williams). The façade of the state supreme court building should read, "To hell with the law—we know what's right," as that has been their motto for decades. I'm surprised the U.S. Supreme Court hasn't stepped on the N.J. courts more.

Imagine the N.J. Supremes umpiring a ball game. Well, the letter of the law says he was out, but it was such a nice try, and after all the other team's ahead, and that rule doesn't seem fair in this case, and . . .

[Edited by greymule on Nov 12th, 2002 at 04:06 PM]

[Elaine "Lady Blue"]

Uh, is the New Jersey Supremes a new singing group??

LOL!!

[greymule]

You're thinking of the Sopranos, Lady Blue.

[Skahtboi]

I had given up reading this thread because it was starting to become a little inane. Glad I looked back in on it...there has been some humor injected!


Scott

[bluezebra]

Originally posted by Elaine "Lady Blue"
As I've said before, Glen has way too much fun with his cartoon characters! But, the hard headed Glen is by far one of the best.
The comment about 4 base award is right on the money, not HR but 4 base award.

Okay. But how is this scored for the batter?

Bob