Never saw this before

[SRW]

Young:
I'm with Seth here. In case 1, ring it. Call that out. Is it any difference if it's R1 on 3B, or R3 on 1B? Nope. Ring it.

In case 2, not so much with Seth. Give her the "one thousand one, one thousand two" and ring it. If she and her coach are dumb enough to miss that obvious part of the rule, they deserve to be taught a lesson with the out. Ring it.

[SethPDX]

Originally Posted by SRW

In case 2, not so much with Seth. Give her the "one thousand one, one thousand two" and ring it. If she and her coach are dumb enough to miss that obvious part of the rule, they deserve to be taught a lesson with the out. Ring it.

I can go with that, too. I don't know that I've seen runners doing this.

[CecilOne]

I have stopped doing any coaching about rules, but sometimes bring something to a coach's attention (like very new players and some IP).
My reasons are that it is a disadvantage to the other team, it is intruding on the coach's job, and the player or coach might think I am also helping the other team more significantly.

Where is applying rules based on advantage defined in the books? I only learned it in basketball and soccer.

[JEL]

Originally Posted by IRISHMAFIA

"But Blue, how can you end a game with a call like that?!?!" or another one of my favorites, "How can you make that call in such an important game?"

I told the coach (after batter stepped out of box, hit ball) "How can I NOT make a call like that in a game like this?"


A game is a game is a game!

[whiskers_ump]

Originally Posted by DeputyUICHousto

Did her actions allow her to get to 2nd base any faster? I doubt I would call this.

No where in any rule book does it say for violations, "was there an advantage gained".

Runner left early, but she didn't steal, so no advantage, don't call?
Pitcher stepped way outside the "24", pitch was a ball, no advantage, don't call?

You can go on and on. Whether an advantage was gained or not, has no bearing
on whether or not to inforce a violation.

[youngump]

Originally Posted by SethPDX

Nope. I have an out. If a runner from first gets enough of a head start she might be able to score. Sounds like an advantage to me.

How long is she standing off the bag? Not something I would usually worry about. Maybe if she's taking a long time to get her foot back over you could remind her quietly.

That depends on how slow the coach has to speak to get her to understand the directions. And how do you suppose I'm going to quietly tell the runner on third to get back on the base from behind the plate?
________
Park Royal 1 Pattaya

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally Posted by whiskers_ump

No where in any rule book does it say for violations, "was there an advantage gained".

Runner left early, but she didn't steal, so no advantage, don't call?
Pitcher stepped way outside the "24", pitch was a ball, no advantage, don't call?

You can go on and on. Whether an advantage was gained or not, has no bearing
on whether or not to inforce a violation.

Speaking ASA

Actually, the violation isn't for "leaving early", but failing to keep contact with the base prior to the (FP) ball leaving the pitcher's hand or (SP) the ball reaching the plate or touching the ground.

[DeputyUICHousto]

Originally Posted by youngump

I've never figured it was in the spirit of the rule so I've never done anything.

Okay, so you use "in the spirit of the rule" here huh? Why is applicable here but not in the OP? What is the spirit of the rule applicable to the OP? You're going to call a girl out because she's a millimeter off the base? Why would you even "see" this?

[youngump]

Originally Posted by DeputyUICHousto

Okay, so you use "in the spirit of the rule" here huh? Why is applicable here but not in the OP? What is the spirit of the rule applicable to the OP? You're going to call a girl out because she's a millimeter off the base? Why would you even "see" this?

I'm not talking about a millimeter off the base I'm talking about distance I can see from my behind the plate.
________
Cumalot4u

[Tru_in_Blu]

I'm relatively new to the dark side, but my mentors have always told me that if I call a runner out for leaving early [steal attempt, as opposed to the look back violations] that it had better be "way obvious".

I've probably made that call half a dozen times in 3 years, some during 1 umpire games, but only on the runner at 2B. Can't claim that a runner from 1B or 3B in a one umpire game would be "way obvious".

Also made some calls related to the look back violation.

During a tournament [2 umpires] w/ runners on first & third, I was keeping an eye on the runner at 3B for a possible bunt play. So the runner at first takes off on the pitch, and she's safe at second. Defensive coach went nuts about her leaving early, 'cuz no one steals on his catcher. They went on to lose the game and he was still railing about that call and how we cost them the [elimination] game. HP ump [veteran guy that's been around for years] finally told him to put a sock in it and that he was reporting the coach to the tournament director, and they wouldn't be invited back again next year. All because I was peeking in the wrong direction. Oh, well...next game!

Ted

[Dakota]

Originally Posted by Tru_in_Blu

I'm relatively new to the dark side, but my mentors have always told me that if I call a runner out for leaving early [steal attempt, as opposed to the look back violations] that it had better be "way obvious"....

I put it like this: the LBR is not a "gotcha rule." I don't look for runner's leaving a microsecond early, etc.

In your 1st and 3rd situation, I recognize that it is not at all unusual for R2 to attempt a steal hoping to draw the throw to try to score R1. So, I'll try to keep R2 in my peripheral vision. But, fundamentally, your priorities were correct.

[SethPDX]

Originally Posted by youngump

I'm not talking about a millimeter off the base I'm talking about distance I can see from my behind the plate.

All right, that clears it up. I would probably have an out here, then.

[Andy]

Originally Posted by Dakota

...In your 1st and 3rd situation, I recognize that it is not at all unusual for R2 to attempt a steal hoping to draw the throw to try to score R1. So, I'll try to keep R2 in my peripheral vision. But, fundamentally, your priorities were correct.

Tom's got it right on the priorities. If you are watching R2 in your periphial vision from the C position, it had better be very obvious that she left early to make that call.

Remember that the coach has the luxury of focusing only on R2 without having to worry about R1, the pitcher's feet or delivery, or any other of the BU responsibilities.

You can also tell him that if he feels that strongly about it, talk to the tournament director about increasing the entry fees in order to pay for three umpires on each game!

[Dakota]

Originally Posted by Andy

Tom's got it right on the priorities. If you are watching R2 in your periphial vision from the C position, it had better be very obvious that she left early to make that call.

Remember that the coach has the luxury of focusing only on R2 without having to worry about R1, the pitcher's feet or delivery, or any other of the BU responsibilities.

You can also tell him that if he feels that strongly about it, talk to the tournament director about increasing the entry fees in order to pay for three umpires on each game!

Agree all the way around.

[Texasbock]

Originally Posted by CajunNewBlue

R1 is waiting for the pitch and has back foot on bag and front foot is planted about 2ft on 2nd base side of infield...whilst waiting she is picking her back foot up and down in a "tapping" motion... kinda like timing the pitch. So im watching her and the DC is watching her from his bucket... So my question is: is this leaving early?
I didn't call anything on her as she made no motion to advance (and i wasn't sure if this was actually anything... I admit it ) and it was a "no rules" "friendly" tournament per the UIC's pep talk in the change room and DC didn't object during the 4 pitches she did it. But, since we are there to arbitrate the rule(s) and I couldnt find anything in my case books specifically about this. let me know.

In a "no rules" friendly tournament, you would have no business calling this unless you were wanting to stir up some crap. I would mention it to them anyway that they might want to rethink how they are coaching their runners for games that count - much like not enforcing illegal pitches in a "no rules" friendly venue.

In any other situation. if you see daylight between the contact foot and the base, this should be called.