Never saw this before - Page 2

SethPDX · #1 (**permalink**) Thu Nov 06, 2008, 04:36pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by youngump

I'm not talking about a millimeter off the base I'm talking about distance I can see from my behind the plate.

All right, that clears it up. I would probably have an out here, then.

Tru_in_Blu · #2 (**permalink**) Thu Nov 06, 2008, 03:58pm

I'm relatively new to the dark side, but my mentors have always told me that if I call a runner out for leaving early [steal attempt, as opposed to the look back violations] that it had better be "way obvious".

I've probably made that call half a dozen times in 3 years, some during 1 umpire games, but only on the runner at 2B. Can't claim that a runner from 1B or 3B in a one umpire game would be "way obvious".

Also made some calls related to the look back violation.

During a tournament [2 umpires] w/ runners on first & third, I was keeping an eye on the runner at 3B for a possible bunt play. So the runner at first takes off on the pitch, and she's safe at second. Defensive coach went nuts about her leaving early, 'cuz no one steals on his catcher. They went on to lose the game and he was still railing about that call and how we cost them the [elimination] game. HP ump [veteran guy that's been around for years] finally told him to put a sock in it and that he was reporting the coach to the tournament director, and they wouldn't be invited back again next year. All because I was peeking in the wrong direction. Oh, well...next game!

Ted

Dakota · #3 (**permalink**) Thu Nov 06, 2008, 04:22pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tru_in_Blu

I'm relatively new to the dark side, but my mentors have always told me that if I call a runner out for leaving early [steal attempt, as opposed to the look back violations] that it had better be "way obvious"....

I put it like this: the LBR is not a "gotcha rule." I don't look for runner's leaving a microsecond early, etc.

In your 1st and 3rd situation, I recognize that it is not at all unusual for R2 to attempt a steal hoping to draw the throw to try to score R1. So, I'll try to keep R2 in my peripheral vision. But, fundamentally, your priorities were correct.

whiskers_ump · #4 (**permalink**) Thu Nov 06, 2008, 10:03am

Quote:

Originally Posted by DeputyUICHousto

Did her actions allow her to get to 2nd base any faster? I doubt I would call this.

No where in any rule book does it say for violations, "was there an advantage gained".

Runner left early, but she didn't steal, so no advantage, don't call?
Pitcher stepped way outside the "24", pitch was a ball, no advantage, don't call?

You can go on and on. Whether an advantage was gained or not, has no bearing
on whether or not to inforce a violation.

IRISHMAFIA · #5 (**permalink**) Thu Nov 06, 2008, 01:11pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by whiskers_ump

No where in any rule book does it say for violations, "was there an advantage gained".

Runner left early, but she didn't steal, so no advantage, don't call?
Pitcher stepped way outside the "24", pitch was a ball, no advantage, don't call?

You can go on and on. Whether an advantage was gained or not, has no bearing
on whether or not to inforce a violation.

Speaking ASA

Actually, the violation isn't for "leaving early", but failing to keep contact with the base prior to the (FP) ball leaving the pitcher's hand or (SP) the ball reaching the plate or touching the ground.

SC Ump · #6 (**permalink**) Wed Nov 05, 2008, 06:17pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by CajunNewBlue

...whilst waiting she is picking her back foot up and down in a "tapping" motion...

"Time!" Run over to bag and while smoothing out the slight undulations in the dirt, state very quietly, "I have to call you out if you're tapping your foot up and down and it leaves the bag."

Texasbock · #7 (**permalink**) Fri Nov 07, 2008, 10:49am

Quote:

Originally Posted by CajunNewBlue

R1 is waiting for the pitch and has back foot on bag and front foot is planted about 2ft on 2nd base side of infield...whilst waiting she is picking her back foot up and down in a "tapping" motion... kinda like timing the pitch. So im watching her and the DC is watching her from his bucket... So my question is: is this leaving early?
I didn't call anything on her as she made no motion to advance (and i wasn't sure if this was actually anything... I admit it

) and it was a "no rules" "friendly" tournament per the UIC's pep talk in the change room and DC didn't object during the 4 pitches she did it. But, since we are there to arbitrate the rule(s) and I couldnt find anything in my case books specifically about this. let me know.

In a "no rules" friendly tournament, you would have no business calling this unless you were wanting to stir up some crap. I would mention it to them anyway that they might want to rethink how they are coaching their runners for games that count - much like not enforcing illegal pitches in a "no rules" friendly venue.

In any other situation. if you see daylight between the contact foot and the base, this should be called.

wadeintothem · #8 (**permalink**) Fri Nov 07, 2008, 11:40am

No you dont see or call this.

topper · #9 (**permalink**) Fri Nov 07, 2008, 12:48pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by wadeintothem

No you dont see or call this.

Exactly. Except it's nor, not or in this case.

wadeintothem · #10 (**permalink**) Fri Nov 07, 2008, 05:30pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by topper

Exactly. Except it's nor, not or in this case.

Not sure what the deal is with you dakota and irish focusing on the grammar police stuff lately... it's pretty lame. I'll keep you guys pretty busy though, cuz I could care less.

Bottom line, if your gonna call something so lame, save everyone from your lameness and look right at the girl and say "I'm gonna call you for leaving early if you keep tapping your foot".

You should be embarrassed for saying it, but I realize some umpires have no shame about such things.

At least give her a chance to fix it.

MNBlue · #11 (**permalink**) Fri Nov 07, 2008, 05:33pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by wadeintothem

cuz I could care less.

I think you meant 'couldn't care less'.

Dakota · #12 (**permalink**) Fri Nov 07, 2008, 05:40pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by wadeintothem

Not sure what the deal is with you dakota and irish focusing on the grammar police stuff lately... it's pretty lame. I'll keep you guys pretty busy though, cuz I could care less...

I always focus on the writing (grammar, etc.); I just rarely post about it. I can't help it. I'm edgumacated. I thought Mike typing "panty waste" was pretty funny in a sophomoric sort of way.

And, if I pointed out all of the lameness in your postings over the years, my post count would be easily tripled.

Skahtboi · #13 (**permalink**) Mon Nov 10, 2008, 09:20am

Quote:

Originally Posted by wadeintothem

Not sure what the deal is with you dakota and irish focusing on the grammar police stuff lately... it's pretty lame. I'll keep you guys pretty busy though, cuz I could care less.

Bottom line, if your gonna call something so lame, save everyone from your lameness and look right at the girl and say "I'm gonna call you for leaving early if you keep tapping your foot".

You should be embarrassed for saying it, but I realize some umpires have no shame about such things.

At least give her a chance to fix it.

I think you meant "you're going to."

IRISHMAFIA · #14 (**permalink**) Fri Nov 07, 2008, 04:10pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Texasbock

In a "no rules" friendly tournament, you would have no business calling this unless you were wanting to stir up some crap. I would mention it to them anyway that they might want to rethink how they are coaching their runners for games that count - much like not enforcing illegal pitches in a "no rules" friendly venue.

I agree with this on one condition. That the "no rules" is not a perception, but something that has been published in advance and the TD will back up the umpire crew when a coach starts whining about rules not being enforced.