Kind of a funny steal situation

[wadeintothem]

Originally Posted by mick

Whether the runner was tagged, or not, the vicinity out call lives on and is accepted by many as a fact of second base.
With the glove waiting for so long, the big sell isn't even necessary, cuz it "should not have been close".

You been hanging out them baseball boys upstairs again mick?

A play like this you would lose credibility on both sides because both sides saw the out.

But the official forum softball umpire stands firm.. and calls the safe and stalls the game and argues with coaches and stutters and puts around and gets called stupid by both sides of the stands... One side patting the other side on the back "hey he screwed ya outta that one, sorry".

Lucky for me I'm not smart or quick like these guys or I woulda been in a lotta trouble instead of that runner...

[mick]

Originally Posted by wadeintothem

You been hanging out them baseball boys upstairs again mick?

A play like this you would lose credibility on both sides because both sides saw the out.

But the official forum softball umpire stands firm.. and calls the safe and stalls the game and argues with coaches and stutters and puts around and gets called stupid by both sides of the stands... One side patting the other side on the back "hey he screwed ya outta that one, sorry".

Lucky for me I'm not smart or quick like these guys or I woulda been in a lotta trouble instead of that runner...

Yes, indeed! That's a funny happenstance of the same rule in different games.
Maybe it's because baseball games are so long.

[wadeintothem]

Originally Posted by mick

Yes, indeed! That's a funny happenstance of the same rule in different games.
Maybe it's because baseball games are so long.

Yeah that could be it. You cant let an out sneak away during a 3.5 hour game...

[mick]

Originally Posted by wadeintothem

Yeah that could be it. You cant let an out sneak away during a 3.5 hour game...

...Or maybe it's a safety issue, in baseball, to prevent the middle infielder from getting a hand ripped up. The same play occurs on a force out where the fielder doesn't have the bag and the ball at the same time.

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally Posted by wadeintothem

A play like this you would lose credibility on both sides because both sides saw the out.

Not necessarily. How many times have you heard, "doesn't she have to make the tag?"

There was a good one in the Phillies-Braves game Monday. Play at the plate, ball beat the runner by three strides. Runner when down low and the catcher did not get the tag down quick enough and when he did, the runner was already on the plate. Ball beat the runner, so I'm sure there were a bundle of people out there saying, "boy, he blew that one. The ball beat him by a mile." That is until the replay shows the late tag, the umpire pointing at the plate making some goofy-assed motion and coming up with the a big "SAFE".

Yeah, Bobby Cox came out and probably said, "How can he be safe, the ball beat him by a mile?"

I will hold the umpire who makes a tough call correct and accuratly, no matter how unpopular it is, in higher esteem than I will the "go along to get along" umpire.

If all the calls were obvious, they wouldn't need umpires. The reason we are on the field is to make the decisions on the tough plays where the outcome isn't so obvious that the drunk in the centerfield bleachers could make it.

[wadeintothem]

Originally Posted by IRISHMAFIA

Not necessarily. How many times have you heard, "doesn't she have to make the tag?"

There was a good one in the Phillies-Braves game Monday. Play at the plate, ball beat the runner by three strides. Runner when down low and the catcher did not get the tag down quick enough and when he did, the runner was already on the plate. Ball beat the runner, so I'm sure there were a bundle of people out there saying, "boy, he blew that one. The ball beat him by a mile." That is until the replay shows the late tag, the umpire pointing at the plate making some goofy-assed motion and coming up with the a big "SAFE".

Yeah, Bobby Cox came out and probably said, "How can he be safe, the ball beat him by a mile?"

I will hold the umpire who makes a tough call correct and accuratly, no matter how unpopular it is, in higher esteem than I will the "go along to get along" umpire.

If all the calls were obvious, they wouldn't need umpires. The reason we are on the field is to make the decisions on the tough plays where the outcome isn't so obvious that the drunk in the centerfield bleachers could make it.

I agree, you gotta make the tough call.. I'll be ready next time..

Sung to the tune of "if a tree falls in the forest.."

If you make the tough call and no one else on earth knows it was the tough call.. did you really make the tough call or just blow one?

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally Posted by wadeintothem

I agree, you gotta make the tough call.. I'll be ready next time..

Sung to the tune of "if a tree falls in the forest.."

If you make the tough call and no one else on earth knows it was the tough call.. did you really make the tough call or just blow one?

Hang on! I'm not disagreeing with your call. How often have you heard, "if you have to think about it, it isn't"?

I'm just talking to your concern about the reactions if you made a call of which that only you and the participants are aware of the fact. A lot of times when such a play happens, everyone argues, but the player involved. There's a case where silence is a telltale sign.

If you see something unexpected and are sure of it, a good step toward the play with a point to the general area with a strong "NO....NO TAG! SAFE!" with signal works great.

[canump]

I had this same sit at my National Championships about 4 years ago. 18 & u girls. I was the 3rd base ump in 3 man crew with R1 on 1st so I was over in the 2nd base position. Host team just happens to be the team on defense, also occupying 3rd dugout. So 90 % of spectators are cheering for you know who.
R1 takes off to steel 2nd but F2 has a wicked arm and throws to F6 who is covering 2nd. She has received the ball about 6" above the groundabout a step towards 1st right on the base path. Ball arrived just as R1 was just starting to go into her slide so you can imagine how much time there was.
Problem was as F6 held her glove expexting R1 to slide into it, R1 slid towards outfeild side of bag so as she went by the glove I was in perfect place to see that there was about 2" between glove and R1. I'm still waiting for tag. I come up selling SAFE. In fact I over sold it, pulled a little muscle in shoulder but that's a different story. Out comes both DCs but my base partner intercepted one for me, but the head coach came straight at me. I let him have his say then I calmly stated she missed the tag.
"There was no tag coach." WHAT DO YOU MEAN NO TAG. Coach she didnot tag her, I was in perfect position to see. WELL WHY DON"T YOU ASK FOR HELP. Coach I saw the ply and I'm 100% positive that there was no tag.
This went on for a few minutes so I finally had to tell that enough etc.
So off he struts back to his 3rd base dugout and somehow I knew it was not over. And of course the crowd is just going bonkers.
Well next half inning guess who is coaching 3rd, and up till then he stuck to the bench. Just as the pitcher was finish her warm ups and we break from our holding positions I start hearing this low mumble about calls, asking for help, judgement. all low so I ignore it. Well as the inning went on, it got louder and he ejected himself. I just directed which gate he should use. Of course I heard it from the crowd the remainder of the game, we even had to have minor assistance to get to the golf cart that was driving us back & forth from the dressing room to the diamonds.
And you're right, F6 never said a word.

[CecilOne]

What you see is what you call, especially not guessing an out.

As Mike said, we are there for the non-obvious. If it's tough or what no one expects, SELL it harder and be more patient with the coach (within limits of course).
I have to live with myself, not the jerk in the stands, not the coach who is 100 feet away with a bad angle, not even the runner who is called out or the fielder who didn't get an out.

[FullCount]

This thread reminded me of a similar issue that falls into the vicinity call category.

Situation: bases loaded, force at home on an easy infield grounder. Ball routinely fielded and thrown to F2 for force out at home. F2 is not standing on the plate; for her foot that is closest to home plate, the heel is about 2 inches forward of the plate. She makes the catch and immediately throws the ball to make another play. She never makes contact with the plate nor does she ever come any closer to it than she was when she made the catch. Do you call safe or out?

[topper]

I'm sure many of the officials on this board were taught early on as I was that:

1) If you don't see an out, the call is safe.

and

2) You need to be able to explain every call you make.

It's hard to get into too much trouble when these 2 guidelines are followed.

[wadeintothem]

Originally Posted by canump

I had this same sit at my National Championships about 4 years ago. 18 & u girls. I was the 3rd base ump in 3 man crew with R1 on 1st so I was over in the 2nd base position. Host team just happens to be the team on defense, also occupying 3rd dugout. So 90 % of spectators are cheering for you know who.
R1 takes off to steel 2nd but F2 has a wicked arm and throws to F6 who is covering 2nd. She has received the ball about 6" above the groundabout a step towards 1st right on the base path. Ball arrived just as R1 was just starting to go into her slide so you can imagine how much time there was.
Problem was as F6 held her glove expexting R1 to slide into it, R1 slid towards outfeild side of bag so as she went by the glove I was in perfect place to see that there was about 2" between glove and R1. I'm still waiting for tag. I come up selling SAFE. In fact I over sold it, pulled a little muscle in shoulder but that's a different story. Out comes both DCs but my base partner intercepted one for me, but the head coach came straight at me. I let him have his say then I calmly stated she missed the tag.
"There was no tag coach." WHAT DO YOU MEAN NO TAG. Coach she didnot tag her, I was in perfect position to see. WELL WHY DON"T YOU ASK FOR HELP. Coach I saw the ply and I'm 100% positive that there was no tag.
This went on for a few minutes so I finally had to tell that enough etc.
So off he struts back to his 3rd base dugout and somehow I knew it was not over. And of course the crowd is just going bonkers.
Well next half inning guess who is coaching 3rd, and up till then he stuck to the bench. Just as the pitcher was finish her warm ups and we break from our holding positions I start hearing this low mumble about calls, asking for help, judgement. all low so I ignore it. Well as the inning went on, it got louder and he ejected himself. I just directed which gate he should use. Of course I heard it from the crowd the remainder of the game, we even had to have minor assistance to get to the golf cart that was driving us back & forth from the dressing room to the diamonds.
And you're right, F6 never said a word.

Is the right call is always the correct call? Are you really sure of what you saw? Maybe you should work on that....

I've been there THIS year...screwing up a HS play off game with the correct IP call, that was the wrong call, and getting led off the field. Correct call... but the wrong call.