definition of a steal and situation question

[Danny R]

I haven't been able to find the definition of steal in any rulebooks. They make references to steals, but don't define them. Can anyone provide me a definition and reference?

My local league has a rule that kids can't steal home (1st half of season). I was umping and there were 2 outs and a runner on 3rd. Pitcher pitched a strike and catcher threw it back. But the pitcher missed the ball and it rolled to the 2nd baseman. Runner at 3rd ran home and scored. Is that considered a steal? Or is it just running on an error while the ball is in play?

[Jackie W.]

FED: 2-34-1... A stolen base is an advance of a runner to the next base without the aid of a base hit, a putout or a fielding(including battery)error(9-4).

What is the age group of the players you're talking about? I don't know if this helps, but in my son's L.L.(ages 9-12),
the only time the runners can steal home is if they are actually played on at 3rd base. Of course this is a local league rule, but find out from your league organizers what the intent of this rule is.

Jackie

[bluezebra]

Local youth leagues make up these "special" rules that have nothing to do with the definition of "stealing". Every one of them considers a runner scoring on anything but a hit or fielding error is a steal. That's WRONG, and is one of my pet peeves. Thedefinition is in the rule book. If you're using The Official Baseball Rules (OBR), and LL uses that, except for modifications. In OBR, look in Rule 10,The Official Scorer.

STOLEN BASES

10.08 A stolen base shall be credited to a runner whenever he advances one base unaided by a hit, a putout, an error, a force out, a fielder's choice, a passed ball, a wild pitch or a balk, subject to the following:

(a) When a runner starts for the next base before the pitcher delivers the ball and the pitch results in what ordinarily is scored a wild pitch or passed ball, credit the runner with a stolen base and do not charge the misplay.

EXCEPTION: If, as a result of the misplay, the stealing runner advances an extra base, or another runner also advances, score the wild pitch or passed ball as well as the stolen base.

Therefore, in your scenario, it's NOT a steal, but advancing on an error. Now, I'll give you 1,000 to 1 odds their definition is the runner coming home on anything but action by the batter. Unfortunately, no one who writes the dumb local rules understands the difference, and never consults an umpire.

Bob

[Danny R]

Thanks. The written local rule is as follows: "Stealing on passed balls is allowed, but no stealing of home." So it seems there is a contradiction of terms as OBR states that running on a passed ball is not a steal. But their meaning of 'passed ball' has been verbally clarified as 'the pitch gets past the catcher.' However, I thought that the throw back to the pitcher resulted in an error, and thus the run home wasn't stealing, which bluezebra confirms is the correct call.

Bluezebra, thanks for the OBR reference. I try to be careful about determining 'what they meant when they wrote the rule' because it's highly likely people write these rules without really thinking through all the possible scenarios. So I'm biased toward taking a legalistic interpretation of rules as opposed to trying to divine the intention, unless the intention is stated.

[Rich Ives]

The rule is too ambiguous - we went througha couple of iterations too.

Here's ours:

Runners may not advance to home plate on a passed ball, wild pitch, or return throw from the catcher back to the pitcher. For any other throw the ball is in play and all runners may advance at their own risk.

[bob jenkins]

Originally posted by Rich Ives
The rule is too ambiguous - we went througha couple of iterations too.

Here's ours:

Runners may not advance to home plate on a passed ball, wild pitch, or return throw from the catcher back to the pitcher. For any other throw the ball is in play and all runners may advance at their own risk.

Our rule is similar:

No runner may score on other than a batted ball, walk or hit batsman. (and we mean "forced to home" on those last two)

In addition, if the runner attempts to score an a, say, "passed ball," the runner can be tagged out, but cannot advance.

[ozzy6900]

In the local LL that my son umpires in, the Minor's have a similar rule:

A runner may advance on a passed ball or wild pitch to 2nd or 3rd but not to home. The runner on 3rd may attempt to steal once the catcher throws the ball back to the pitcher.

I stated once before that this type of rule just prevents having to teach a catcher to "catch". Well on opening day last week, I watched my son's game and in the first inning, a couple of runners wound up on third and the catcher walked the ball out to the pitcher. My son must have read my mind as he allowed this to happen 3 times then called time. He called both coaches over to the plate and informed them "...this is a baseball game! And in a baseball game, the catcher throws the ball back to the pitcher ..." and he would not tolerate this walking the ball to the pitcher any longer (not bad for a 14 year old umpire). From that point on, the catchers threw the ball back and not once did the pitchers miss the ball.

I say again, leagues think that they are helping youngsters by making these silly "add on rules". The best thing that they can do for the kids is leave the rules alone and teach the players to play ball the right way! Somewhere in time, we became so concerned about "fairness" and "equality" that we forgot to teach the fundamentals of the game ... see the ball, catch the ball, throw the ball, hit the ball!