Please clarify this for me.

[dhamby6187]

We had a situation in a softball game last week and I have been trying to find what the official rule is. There were two outs with no runners on tie game in the bottom of the 7th. The batter hit a ball to right center and the outfielder laid out and made what looked like an awesome catch. The umpire in the field called the batter out. My team, along with the batter started to walk off the field. The other team started to yell that the homeplate umpire said fair ball. He then ran from second to home scoring the winning run, while we protested with the field umpire. I have been told by a few people that this should be called a dead ball and the runner given a ground rule double due to the fact that two different umpires made two different calls. Can someone clarify this for me with an official rule or something.

[Gulf Coast Blue]

In 2 man mechanics.........fly balls generally belong to the Plate Umpire.........

In the instance where there may be a trouble fly ball (sounds like it in this case) and the Base Umpire goes out to make the call........the Plate umpire then has any and all runners on the bases.........

As soon as the PU sees the BU go out on the fly ball.........he knows that the catch/no-catch is no longer his........

This is a definite boo-boo on the two umpires working together as a team........

This could have been avoided with a good pre-game between the two blues.........

BUT.........in ASA if two umpires make different calls on the same play..........the PU will have the final say-so..........

Also........the PU may rectify any situation that places either the offense or the defense at a disatvantage.......

Am also interested in seeing others' opinions on this situation...........

Hope this helps..........

Joel

[IRISHMAFIA]

You may be correct Joel, but what bothers me is that it doesn't say the BU went out. There are a fair amount of umpires who will make that call "on the move" to the inside with absolutely no regard to the PU.

[dhamby6187]

Dave...you are right. The BU ump did not look at the PU until after all of the maylay had started. WE are currently protesting the game. I doubt anything will come of it though.

[IRISHMAFIA]

Who is "Dave"?

[dhamby6187]

Sorry. I am dave. I dont know what I was doing. But you are right. It was such a good game too 22-22 in with the time limit expired and playing Extra Innings. They just wanted to go home. I hate SLACK ASSES.

[whiskers_ump]

Originally posted by dhamby6187
We had a situation in a softball game last week and I have been trying to find what the official rule is. There were two outs with no runners on tie game in the bottom of the 7th. The batter hit a ball to right center and the outfielder laid out and made what looked like an awesome catch. The umpire in the field called the batter out. My team, along with the batter started to walk off the field. The other team started to yell that the homeplate umpire said fair ball. He then ran from second to home scoring the winning run, while we protested with the field umpire. I have been told by a few people that this should be called a dead ball and the runner given a ground rule double due to the fact that two different umpires made two different calls. Can someone clarify this for me with an official rule or something.

I think I know what you are saying, but what you have said in your
post is that BU called the batter out....which unless he BU, went
out to the play, made a call that was not
his..You then said that PU called the ball Fair, which if
hit as stated, right center field, then ball would be fair...But if he was
saying safe, then you have a double call and Joel has stated to you
how to handle that situation.

He's Dave, You are Mike...

glen

[Edited by whiskers_ump on Apr 23rd, 2002 at 09:46 PM]

[Dakota]

Originally posted by dhamby6187
...The batter hit a ball to right center and the outfielder laid out and made what looked like an awesome catch. The umpire in the field called the batter out. My team, along with the batter started to walk off the field. The other team started to yell that the homeplate umpire said fair ball.

Realize this is coming from a player, so nomenclature may not be clear. I know that unless the BU went out, it was not his call, but I suspect we can't expect a player describing the situation to note whether the BU "went out" (turned his back to the infield) or not.

While Mike's suspicion of the mechanics (or lack thereof) of the BU may be correct, giving the benefit of the doubt to the BU, and assuming he went out, it was his call.

Further, a "call" (signal?) of FAIR does not contradict a call of CATCH-OUT, since both calls could be true. (One is the location of the ball when touched; the other is did the fielder maintain control.)

Now, a call of FOUL would be a contradiction, since that would indicate NO CATCH.

Sounds to me like either:
a) the PU called SAFE (NO CATCH), or
b) the offense is looking to win by confusion.

Assuming a), if the BU went out, (and he probably should have with the description of the diving catch, etc.) tough nookies - it was his call.