When do you call an Illegal pitch?

[BuggBob]

Okay I made a little girl cry. The pitcher steps on the pitcher's plate with her hands together (ball in glove, hand on ball). I immediately called an illegal pitch. The team protested my call, the UIC was summoned, the call was overturned. The other umpires at this tournament were about 50-50 split on if this was an illegal pitch or not.

The not illegal pitch camp said the pitch does not start until the hands separate, the pitcher could have corrected her error by stepping off the plate. But by me calling the pitch illegal she did not have that opportunity.

The it is an illegal pitch camp agreed with my call.

No mater the out come, after that the pitcher sure did remember the pitch timing elements.

Bugg

[NCASAUmp]

What age group was this?

[BuggBob]

Asa U14

[wadeintothem]

Age group is not relevent to the rule of course.

You were incorrect if you stopped this pitch with an IP call. In any IP, Illegal pitch is a delayed dead ball. You didnt have an IP, there wasnt even a pitch.

[3afan]

Originally Posted by BuggBob

Okay I made a little girl cry. The pitcher steps on the pitcher's plate with her hands together (ball in glove, hand on ball). I immediately called an illegal pitch. The team protested my call, the UIC was summoned, the call was overturned. The other umpires at this tournament were about 50-50 split on if this was an illegal pitch or not.

The not illegal pitch camp said the pitch does not start until the hands separate, the pitcher could have corrected her error by stepping off the plate. But by me calling the pitch illegal she did not have that opportunity.

The it is an illegal pitch came agreed with my call. No mater the out come, after that the pitcher sure did remember the pitch timing elements.

Bugg

once a pitch is illegal, nothing can be done to make it legal

pitcher must step on the plate with hands apart - thats pretty clear

why did the UIC overturn the IP call? on what basis?

[kcg NC2Ablu]

you do have to wait until the pitcher starts the pitching motion to call it. Thats partially why illegal pitches are delayed dead balls

[Andy]

Originally Posted by BuggBob

Okay I made a little girl cry....
Bugg

Bob - now you're ready to go umpire with Wade......

[Dakota]

Originally Posted by 3afan

once a pitch is illegal, nothing can be done to make it legal

pitcher must step on the plate with hands apart - thats pretty clear...

Actually, in ASA it is not that clear. We come to the conclusion in ASA that she must step on the plate with the hands apart because that is the only way she can complete a legal pitch. But, merely stepping on the plate with the hands together is not, by itself, illegal in ASA. (It is in NFHS - Rule 6-1-a).

In ASA, the pitcher is required to take (or pretend to take) signals with both feet on the plate and the hands separated (6-1-D). Then, in ASA, the pitch starts when the hands come together, and once separated, they cannot come together again and she must immediately deliver the ball (6-3-A, B). Obviously, she cannot do both of those if she steps on the plate with the hands together.

She can, however, step back off the plate before she separates the hands and start over.

IMO, you were premature to call the pitch illegal until she either took signs with the hands together (never separated them prior to the pitch) or double touched. She would have had to do one or the other.

[AtlUmpSteve]

Originally Posted by BuggBob

The not illegal pitch camp said the pitch does not start until the hands separate, the pitcher could have corrected her error by stepping off the plate. But by me calling the pitch illegal she did not have that opportunity.

Bugg

I am in this camp. It is not yet an illegal pitch, because the pitcher can legally disengage prior to separating her hands, thus prior to starting the pitch. This is the one and only action that she can do to avoid the illegal pitch; once she separates, starting a pitch, it is THEN an illegal pitch.

I have been told that at least one ASA NUS member (WS) has said otherwise, but see no backing in the rule book, RS, manual, casebook, or official ruling from OKC.

[SRW]

Originally Posted by AtlUmpSteve

I have been told that at least one ASA NUS member (WS) ...

Would that be Walt, Walt, or Wild?

[AtlUmpSteve]

Originally Posted by SRW

Would that be Walt, Walt, or Wild?

Does it help to know that the one I am referring to is quoted as making this statement in a Texas setting?

I may be paranoid, but prefer that I not be naming names that can be Googled.

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally Posted by AtlUmpSteve

Does it help to know that the one I am referring to is quoted as making this statement in a Texas setting?

I may be paranoid, but prefer that I not be naming names that can be Googled.

Take it from someone who knows about that, good move.

[NCASAUmp]

Originally Posted by IRISHMAFIA

Take it from someone who knows about that, good move.

Damn... I made y'all paranoid, didn't I?

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally Posted by NCASAUmp

Damn... I made y'all paranoid, didn't I?

No, I have already had more discussions with OKC folks and associated staff than I care to.

[ronald]

Caebook that i got in January 2003, which I think is for 2002 but could be for 2003.

play 6f.1-3 (fp)

May the pitcher take his pitching wtith his hands already together?

Ruling: No. The pitchers (sic) hands must be apart when he steps onto the pitcher's plate and while taking the signal. An illegal pitch should be called [B]as soon as this occurs. [B] (6f-1b).

all the above may have changed but giving some info from asa.