Can this be true?

[DeputyUICHousto]

Men's slowpitch w/o stealing.

Pitcher recieves the ball back from the catcher. With ball in glove pitcher places his hand palm down onto the sand. Pitcher immediately goes to the ball. Is this now an Illegal Pitch?

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally Posted by DeputyUICHousto

Men's slowpitch w/o stealing.

Pitcher recieves the ball back from the catcher. With ball in glove pitcher places his hand palm down onto the sand. Pitcher immediately goes to the ball. Is this now an Illegal Pitch?

Depends, did the sand stay on the ball?

[DeputyUICHousto]

Originally Posted by IRISHMAFIA

Depends, did the sand stay on the ball?

In FP if a pitcher goes to the sand without wiping it off it is an illegal pitch.

[Dakota]

Originally Posted by DeputyUICHousto

In FP if a pitcher goes to the sand without wiping it off it is an illegal pitch.

Speaking ASA FP, no, that is black-letter rule with respect to licking the fingers, not a foreign substance in general. Otherwise, it is a judgment as to whether the foreign substance (dirt) was applied to the ball.

[Dholloway1962]

Originally Posted by Dakota

Speaking ASA FP, no, that is black-letter rule with respect to licking the fingers, not a foreign substance in general. Otherwise, it is a judgment as to whether the foreign substance (dirt) was applied to the ball.

Maybe I misunderstood what you are trying to say but, 6-6-A says A defensive player shall not at any time during the game be allowed to use an foreign substance on the ball. It does say "a foreign substance".

Were you saying dirt/sand is not a foreign substance?

[Dakota]

Originally Posted by Dholloway1962

Maybe I misunderstood what you are trying to say but, 6-6-A says A defensive player shall not at any time during the game be allowed to use an foreign substance on the ball. It does say "a foreign substance".

Were you saying dirt/sand is not a foreign substance?

No, I was saying the the rule about it being an IP for failure to wipe off pertains to licking the fingers. Otherwise, the rule is to not apply the foreign substance to the ball. If a pitcher picks up a handful of dirt, tosses it aside, and does not wipe the hand before touching the ball, you have to decide whether that is a violation. Whereas, if a pitcher licks the fingers, does not wipe them off, and them goes to the ball, there is a direct rule that declares that an IP. It is a stupid rule (IMO), but there it is.

[NDblue]

I honestly don't feel that sand/dirt is a foreign substance unless you're playing on an all-grass field. There's already going to be sand/dirt/dust on the ball from your ball bag, the fielders glove or the field itself. How can part of the field be a foreign substance?

[Dholloway1962]

If they just reach down and touch the dirt I don't necessarily have an issue with that (I will usually just quietly tell the P while I'm wiping the pitcher's plate to make some attempt to act like she' wiping her hand just to keep a coach from grumbling about something that is really nothing). If they pickup a handful of dirt and throw it on the ball or rub the ball on the ground to scuff it up then I go with the IP.

[NCASAUmp]

Originally Posted by NDblue

I honestly don't feel that sand/dirt is a foreign substance unless you're playing on an all-grass field. There's already going to be sand/dirt/dust on the ball from your ball bag, the fielders glove or the field itself. How can part of the field be a foreign substance?

I think the rule is there to prevent an unnatural altering of the flight of the ball. Some pitchers will do anything to get that extra "edge," including licking their fingers (to get better grip - which I think is stupid), putting dirt on the ball (to give the ball a bit more "wobble"), etc.

Putting extra dirt onto the ball, in my opinion, would alter the characteristics of the ball during the pitch, and would give the pitcher an unfair advantage. Kinda like allowing the bat to be flat (and not passing the bat ring) would give an unfair advantage to the batter.

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally Posted by NCASAUmp

Putting extra dirt onto the ball, in my opinion, would alter the characteristics of the ball during the pitch, and would give the pitcher an unfair advantage. Kinda like allowing the bat to be flat (and not passing the bat ring) would give an unfair advantage to the batter.

That's part of the issue. The rule forbids applying a foreign substance to the ball. To me, applying anything to the ball means placing it on the ball and it stays there.

[NCASAUmp]

Originally Posted by IRISHMAFIA

That's part of the issue. The rule forbids applying a foreign substance to the ball. To me, applying anything to the ball means placing it on the ball and it stays there.

Exactly. I'm surprised some umpires don't grasp exactly why this rule is there. The bottom line, to me, is that it temporarily "alters" the ball in a way that's favorable to the defense.

[NDblue]

But dirt is not foreign to the ball. Spit is a completely different thing as is Vaseline or using sandpaper. Are we going to start making the pitchers wipe off the ball every time it touches dirt? If that's the case, I'd still be umping my very first game because that's how long a game will last. I can be given two brand new balls at the beginning of a game and prior to the first pitch of said game, I'm quite certain one of those balls has seen the ground and the other ball that's still in my ball bag is going to have some kind of "foreign" substance on it whether it's dust or residue from a dryer sheet. Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying a pitcher can take the ball and rough it up in a pile of dirt that he/she has conjured up but if he/she puts some dirt one his/her hand and doesn't wipe their hand on their pants/shirt, I'm not calling IP because there's nothing in the rule book to back it up. Just so we're clear, IMO dirt is NOT a foreign substance and unless they're using mud, the dirt isn't sticking to the ball in any way that will change the flight characteristics.

[wadeintothem]

mens slow pitch?

Of course you dont call this.

girls fast pitch...

find a way to tell her to stop it so you dont have to call it.

This is the same non call as some others I can think of.

[NDblue]

Originally Posted by wadeintothem

mens slow pitch?

Of course you dont call this.

girls fast pitch...

find a way to tell her to stop it so you dont have to call it.

This is the same non call as some others I can think of.

What about women's slow pitch and men's fast pitch?

[wadeintothem]

Originally Posted by NDblue

What about women's slow pitch and men's fast pitch?

too much other cheating going to worry about dirt on a ball in mens fastpitch.