LBR - What's a Play?

[bwbuddy]

NSA Fastpitch: I know the rule book says that if the pitcher makes a play, including a fake throw, that the LBR does not apply. But, what's a play?

Last night, the runner remained off 2B, because the pitcher, after entering the circle with the ball, continued to eyeball the runner, and didn't turn around to pitch until after about 5 seconds (at which time the runner then returned).

Would you have considered that a play by the pitcher, or violation of LBR?

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally Posted by bwbuddy

NSA Fastpitch: I know the rule book says that if the pitcher makes a play, including a fake throw, that the LBR does not apply. But, what's a play?

Last night, the runner remained off 2B, because the pitcher, after entering the circle with the ball, continued to eyeball the runner, and didn't turn around to pitch until after about 5 seconds (at which time the runner then returned).

Would you have considered that a play by the pitcher, or violation of LBR?

Don't know about NSA, but that doesn't sound much like a play no matter what rules set is being used.

[wadeintothem]

sounds to me like the umpire missed out on a nice easy out.

[MichaelVA2000]

Originally Posted by bwbuddy

NSA Fastpitch: I know the rule book says that if the pitcher makes a play, including a fake throw, that the LBR does not apply. But, what's a play?

Last night, the runner remained off 2B, because the pitcher, after entering the circle with the ball, continued to eyeball the runner, and didn't turn around to pitch until after about 5 seconds (at which time the runner then returned).

Would you have considered that a play by the pitcher, or violation of LBR?

A play on the runner would have been in the umpire's judgment F1 making any movement to get the runner to commit to a base. As the OP is described my judgment would have been LBR violation, runner is out.

[Texasbock]

My understanding of "making a play" within the context of LBR is anything that the pitcher does to cause the runner to react. To me, that leaves a lot of room to the umpire to decide whether or not the pitcher is indeed doing anything to cause the runner to react.

Simply eyeballing a runner does not seem to fit that definition. But if she were making any kind of head or shoulder movement simultaneously while eyeballing would be a different story.......

[wadeintothem]

Originally Posted by MichaelVA2000

A play ...making any movement to get the runner to commit to a base.

I would not agree with that definition of a play in ASA. A shoulder wiggle fake could be considered a movement to get the runner to commit to the base, I'm not protecting the runner on that. I consider that a cat and mouse game drawn by a runner.. and the runner is going to lose quickly on it.

[bwbuddy]

Originally Posted by Texasbock

My understanding of "making a play" within the context of LBR is anything that the pitcher does to cause the runner to react. To me, that leaves a lot of room to the umpire to decide whether or not the pitcher is indeed doing anything to cause the runner to react

So, then, the bottom line?: if the ump told the coach that in his judgment, the pitcher was making a play, the ump was within his rights to do so? I know the pitcher did not hold the ball in the air to perform a "strong fake", but as to whether she may have flicked her wrist while holding the ball below her waist, or turned a shoulder towards the runner, I could not tell you.

[Dakota]

Originally Posted by bwbuddy

So, then, the bottom line?: if the ump told the coach that in his judgment, the pitcher was making a play, the ump was within his rights to do so?

Yes, within his rights, but not necessarily the same judgment another umpire would have made.

[Dakota]

Originally Posted by wadeintothem

I would not agree with that definition of a play in ASA. A shoulder wiggle fake could be considered a movement to get the runner to commit to the base, I'm not protecting the runner on that. I consider that a cat and mouse game drawn by a runner.. and the runner is going to lose quickly on it.

I agree with ASA's definition, but it must be rationally applied.

[CecilOne]

Originally Posted by Dakota

I agree with ASA's definition, but it must be rationally applied.

And, if the pitcher is giving attention to the runner, not to pitching; then I would be reluctant to call LBR. Other hand, if I judge the runner is causing the pitcher's attention or is intentionally trying for a play; then that is what the LBR is about.
Bear in mind, that I always object to using the LBR as a "gotcha".

[MichaelVA2000]

Originally Posted by wadeintothem

I would not agree with that definition of a play in ASA. A shoulder wiggle fake could be considered a movement to get the runner to commit to the base, I'm not protecting the runner on that. I consider that a cat and mouse game drawn by a runner.. and the runner is going to lose quickly on it.

Guess that's why it's called judgment.

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally Posted by CecilOne

And, if the pitcher is giving attention to the runner, not to pitching; then I would be reluctant to call LBR. Other hand, if I judge the runner is causing the pitcher's attention or is intentionally trying for a play; then that is what the LBR is about.
Bear in mind, that I always object to using the LBR as a "gotcha".

Speaking ASA and probably a few others.

I wouldn't necessarily agree with part of this. It is not incumbent upon the pitcher to "look" or encourage the runner to go to a base. However, paying attention to a runner off the base is part of any defender's responsibility. OTOH, I'm not going to ignore a LBR violation because the pitcher is watching the runner.

You are correct, this is not supposed to be a gotcha rule, but as much as it is the DC responsibility to properly teach the pitcher on how to handle a runner off the base, it is equally the OC responsibility to teach runners how to react when the play is over.

Then again, if we just kill the ball when all obvious play is finished, we don't have a gotcha, we don't have an confrontation with the coach and this thread doesn't exist.