Was I right?

[MisterV]

Greetings,

I am a HS JV coach, but I used to umpire some JV games back in the day. Last weekend I got a call asking me to fill in for a few games as an umpire. I agreed, and for the most part had a great time.

I have a question about a situation that occurred in one of my games. I was the BU. R1 was on first with no outs. A ground ball was hit to the left of the 2b, which took her (and me) to first base for the out. R1 rounded 2nd and headed for 3rd. PU went to 3rd, and I drifted towards the plate in case of an overthrow. Sure enough, there was an overthrow and the runner came home. I was right there and made the call on a bang-bang play at the plate.

My partner and I thought we had handled this correctly, but I was later told by one of the other umpires that if we ever worked together, that I was NEVER to come home when he was behind the plate because it was his call all the way. He then went into great detail about his 46 years of experience.

IMO, my partner and I hustled, communicated, and got the call right. As a coach, I read and respect the opinions on this board. I just want to know if I was in the right place on this play.

[rwest]

Originally Posted by MisterV

Greetings,

I am a HS JV coach, but I used to umpire some JV games back in the day. Last weekend I got a call asking me to fill in for a few games as an umpire. I agreed, and for the most part had a great time.

I have a question about a situation that occurred in one of my games. I was the BU. R1 was on first with no outs. A ground ball was hit to the left of the 2b, which took her (and me) to first base for the out. R1 rounded 2nd and headed for 3rd. PU went to 3rd, and I drifted towards the plate in case of an overthrow. Sure enough, there was an overthrow and the runner came home. I was right there and made the call on a bang-bang play at the plate.

My partner and I thought we had handled this correctly, but I was later told by one of the other umpires that if we ever worked together, that I was NEVER to come home when he was behind the plate because it was his call all the way. He then went into great detail about his 46 years of experience.

IMO, my partner and I hustled, communicated, and got the call right. As a coach, I read and respect the opinions on this board. I just want to know if I was in the right place on this play.

I don't believe that is a prescribed mechanic for 2 man, but I don't have a problem with the mechanic per se. I know in the ASA manual it says that the mechanics are a starting point and I believe that they should be followed most of the time. However, it also says that if you deviate communicate. This is a perfect example where you communicated and got the call right. There are times when the normal mechanics break down and we have to deviate. There are times when we deviate out of convenience. As long as you communicate before hand I don't have a problem with it. For example, when I'm doing 4 SP games a night, and a fly ball takes me down third base line, I'll call off the BU from taking the trail runner to third since I'm already there. If you do that enough during a game it just might save his legs for when I need him at 3rd.

[Ed Maeder]

The other umpire was correct. Third base and home are both the plate umpires calls. If there was a play at third, (sounds like there was) the plate umpire should have gotten inside for a call at third. When the overthrow occurred your partner should have stayed inside and gone home for the call. rwest is also correct in that if you deviate from prescribed mechanics you communicate. If the play was covered well and you communicated this change could work.

[Dholloway1962]

Agree that by the book you were wrong.

However if you pre-game this, communicate it when it happens, and there are for sure no trailing runners then you can make it work. There are times you can deviate from the manual but it has to be done very carefully and all have to know it is happening.

[DeputyUICHousto]

with this is what happens if now you have a snap throw behind the runner at 1st base? Who covers that? BU at the plate and PU at 3rd?

[DaveASA/FED]

Originally Posted by MisterV

Greetings,

I A ground ball was hit to the left of the 2b, which took her (and me) to first base for the out.

Bold above is by me. There is no runner at first to snap throw back at since they were out!! Agreed if there was a runner there then BU should be taking care of them, not going home. But in this case why not help out, as long as you communicate since it is a deviation from the prescribed mechanics.

[rwest]

Originally Posted by DaveASA/FED

Bold above is by me. There is no runner at first to snap throw back at since they were out!! Agreed if there was a runner there then BU should be taking care of them, not going home. But in this case why not help out, as long as you communicate since it is a deviation from the prescribed mechanics.

The last thing you want is for the PU to come home and have a different call than the BU who is now covering home.

Its a good mechanic but pre-game it. It's not enough to just yell out to your partner, "I got home". He needs to know that you will do this when the circumstances allow for it before the game begins.

[mick]

Originally Posted by MisterV

Greetings,

I am a HS JV coach, but I used to umpire some JV games back in the day. Last weekend I got a call asking me to fill in for a few games as an umpire. I agreed, and for the most part had a great time.

I have a question about a situation that occurred in one of my games. I was the BU. R1 was on first with no outs. A ground ball was hit to the left of the 2b, which took her (and me) to first base for the out. R1 rounded 2nd and headed for 3rd. PU went to 3rd, and I drifted towards the plate in case of an overthrow. Sure enough, there was an overthrow and the runner came home. I was right there and made the call on a bang-bang play at the plate.

My partner and I thought we had handled this correctly, but I was later told by one of the other umpires that if we ever worked together, that I was NEVER to come home when he was behind the plate because it was his call all the way. He then went into great detail about his 46 years of experience.

IMO, my partner and I hustled, communicated, and got the call right. As a coach, I read and respect the opinions on this board. I just want to know if I was in the right place on this play.

In my opinion, what you and your partner did on that play was marvelous!

• You got trapped, but stayed with the initial play.
• Partner got a jump on the anticipated play at 3B.
• You got a jump on the anticipated play at home.

I love it! Great job!!

[DeputyUICHousto]

I never saw the "out"...since the out was made at 1st then you did perfect.

[CecilOne]

We are told repeatedly that the BU never covers home in the two-ump system.

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally Posted by rwest

The last thing you want is for the PU to come home and have a different call than the BU who is now covering home.

Its a good mechanic but pre-game it. It's not enough to just yell out to your partner, "I got home". He needs to know that you will do this when the circumstances allow for it before the game begins.

From past experiences where this specific mechanic was taught locally for years, the partner becomes comfortable with it and depends on it. Then when the partner couldn't get there, oops!

Then you have the issue of R1 reversing his/her direction and heading back to 2B? Who has that call if a play is made.

If the PU follows the proper mechanics for a call at 3B, s/he is in perfect position to bring the runner home, no real reason for anyone else to be there.

[mick]

Originally Posted by IRISHMAFIA

Then you have the issue of R1 reversing his/her direction and heading back to 2B? Who has that call if a play is made.

If the PU follows the proper mechanics for a call at 3B, s/he is in perfect position to bring the runner home, no real reason for anyone else to be there.

Item: If R1 reverses, I think BU is still on right side of mound watching for that problem before committing to home.

Item: If the overthrow beats R1 to 3B, then R1 may have hit 3B on the dead run and could well be 20'-30' ahead of a reversing PU.

Just sayin'.

[CecilOne]

Originally Posted by mick

Item: If R1 reverses, I think BU is still on right side of mound watching for that problem before committing to home.

Item: If the overthrow beats R1 to 3B, then R1 may have hit 3B on the dead run and could well be 20'-30' ahead of a reversing PU.

Just sayin'.

I didn't know we were talking about Olympic sprinters. The PU would be 10 - 15' toward home to begin with and can react just as quickly as the runner and only has 40' feet to go, not 60'. Not picking on Mick, but we seem to often get into this on coverage questions and talk as if the umpire has to be exactly even with the bases.

[mick]

Originally Posted by CecilOne

I didn't know we were talking about Olympic sprinters. The PU would be 10 - 15' toward home to begin with and can react just as quickly as the runner and only has 40' feet to go, not 60'. Not picking on Mick, but we seem to often get into this on coverage questions and talk as if the umpire has to be exactly even with the bases.

I understand that stuff, Cecil.
I also understand that a decent runner can cover that 15' headstart in 0.5 second if he hits the bag at full bore [and without shins and plate shoes, too].

[wadeintothem]

Originally Posted by mick

In my opinion, what you and your partner did on that play was marvelous!

• You got trapped, but stayed with the initial play.
• Partner got a jump on the anticipated play at 3B.
• You got a jump on the anticipated play at home.

I love it! Great job!!

You may love it, it may even make sense....

In ASA, it is not the prescribed robotic nor allowed mechanic in 2 Man EVER.

3 man yes, 2 man no.