Was I right? - Page 2

mick · #16 (**permalink**) Thu Jun 26, 2008, 09:47pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by wadeintothem

You may love it, it may even make sense....

In ASA, it is not the prescribed robotic nor allowed mechanic in 2 Man EVER.

3 man yes, 2 man no.

Ever? Whew! That's a long time !

I don't have anything current with regard to softball mechanics, but are you saying that BU covering home is disallowed, or that the mechanic is not specifically allowed, like the *wipe off* ?

IRISHMAFIA · #17 (**permalink**) Thu Jun 26, 2008, 10:45pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by mick

Item: If R1 reverses, I think BU is still on right side of mound watching for that problem before committing to home.

Mick, you are obviously umpiring the wrong game. What mound?

Anyone can try to justify this as much as they want. In real time, it just isn't going to happen. Once an umpire decides to head toward home, there is no way they will be able to cover 2B for anything.

wadeintothem · #18 (**permalink**) Thu Jun 26, 2008, 10:55pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by mick

Ever? Whew! That's a long time !

I don't have anything current with regard to softball mechanics, but are you saying that BU covering home is disallowed, or that the mechanic is not specifically allowed, like the *wipe off* ?

Its specifically not allowed and is a point at all clinics. You simply dont do it. You need to head towards 3. If there is something at 2, thats you. If there is a run down, you can take the 3b side. You dont go home. Thats PU's.

Ed Maeder · #19 (**permalink**) Fri Jun 27, 2008, 01:30am

Quote:

Originally Posted by wadeintothem

You may love it, it may even make sense....

In ASA, it is not the prescribed robotic nor allowed mechanic in 2 Man EVER.

3 man yes, 2 man no.

In three man you would never rotate home from the B position either (where this umpire was at the start of the play). I think a lot of you are not realizing that this umpire was in the B position at the start of this play and had a play at first. Also had a base tag at second and return if runner came back. Too many things to do before breaking home and was outside to begin with. Too far to go to pick up play at the plate.

mick · #20 (**permalink**) Fri Jun 27, 2008, 06:06am

Thanks for your help folks.

CecilOne · #21 (**permalink**) Fri Jun 27, 2008, 06:41am

Are there separate mechanics for two-woman and three-woman or mixed genders?

And do NOT go there, umpiring comments only!

rwest · #22 (**permalink**) Fri Jun 27, 2008, 07:22am

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ed Maeder

In three man you would never rotate home from the B position either (where this umpire was at the start of the play). I think a lot of you are not realizing that this umpire was in the B position at the start of this play and had a play at first. Also had a base tag at second and return if runner came back. Too many things to do before breaking home and was outside to begin with. Too far to go to pick up play at the plate.

In three man with runner on 1st, the U1 would be on the 1st base line. U3 would be at 2nd-3rd base line extended. In this situation you still have the potential for rotating.

Dakota · #23 (**permalink**) Fri Jun 27, 2008, 08:52am

Quote:

Originally Posted by CecilOne

Are there separate mechanics for two-woman and three-woman or mixed genders?

And do NOT go there, umpiring comments only!

Too late... Yes, depending on the protective equipment available...

Ed Maeder · #24 (**permalink**) Fri Jun 27, 2008, 12:28pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by rwest

In three man with runner on 1st, the U1 would be on the 1st base line. U3 would be at 2nd-3rd base line extended. In this situation you still have the potential for rotating.

That's why I said from the B position. No umpire rotates home from the B position.

rwest · #25 (**permalink**) Fri Jun 27, 2008, 01:25pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ed Maeder

That's why I said from the B position. No umpire rotates home from the B position.

But I believe you are overlooking a couple of things. Since the play took the BU toward first base he was out of position to make a call at 2nd. The PU realized this and took R1 to second base. When R1 went to 3rd the PU followed her. U1 wasn't in any better position to make a call at 2nd if R1 decided to return to 2nd. PU was closer. Instead of standing there, why not have BU go home? It works in 3 man; I know the BU in the B slot would never go home, but the principle is the same. Also, remember he had no play at first after the batter-runner was retired.

I know it's not according to the mechanics and there are some very strong opinions against it. However, the mechanics manual gives us the option to deviate as long as we communicate. I also realize its frowned on by the NUS at clinics. This is the best argument against this mechanic, IMHO. However, I've not heard such strong opinions at the Advanced camps I've attended as I'm hearing on this forum. Maybe it wasn't discussed in my group. I just don't remember.

And the argument that some make that it is easy for the PU to rotate back to home on the overthrow is true, but the same can be said in 3 man.

The best argument against this mechanic is that it is not an approved mechanic and is frowned on by the NUS. Most of the other arguments against it can also be said of the 3 man mechanic.

IRISHMAFIA · #26 (**permalink**) Fri Jun 27, 2008, 02:16pm

No, the best argument is that it places an umpire out of position. That's it, end of story.

Can you deviate when an umpire gets trapped? Sure, but don't get caught with a play at a based which is uncovered.

rwest · #27 (**permalink**) Fri Jun 27, 2008, 02:49pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by IRISHMAFIA

No, the best argument is that it places an umpire out of position. That's it, end of story.

Can you deviate when an umpire gets trapped? Sure, but don't get caught with a play at a based which is uncovered.

In limited situations in 2 man mechanics it is just as helpful as in 3 man. If the BU is not out of position when at home in 3 Man, he wont be in 2 man, in those limited scenarios. I'm not advocating that it be done as often as it is in 3 man. There are situations where obviously it can't be. But the OP is not one of them. There isn't an uncovered base. The batter-runner was retired at first base. R1 went to Third, rounded third and went home. The BU had no base responsibilities.

Modify the above situation a bit. Suppose R1 got caught in a run down between home and third and the PU was stuck at 3rd? What would you have the BU do? I think the most logical thing is for him to go home and cover that end, while the PU takes 3rd. I realize that in most run downs the PU will have home and the BU will have third. However, if you have the BU move to home you will have less movement of the umpires and all of the bases are covered. If you have the PU move home and the BU moved to third, there is a greater chance that a call will be missed because both umpires will not be in the best position to make a call until they get to the respective spots.