Is this a tag?

[7in60]

In a game last week, there was a force out on a runner returning to 1B. F3 also applied the tag, but the ball was in her bare hand and the glove was sandwiched between the runner and the ball. I pondered whether I would have given credit for the tag had it been a tag play. I decided it was equivalent to the ball being in her glove. Is this correct?

[NCASAUmp]

Originally Posted by 7in60

In a game last week, there was a force out on a runner returning to 1B. F3 also applied the tag, but the ball was in her bare hand and the glove was sandwiched between the runner and the ball. I pondered whether I would have given credit for the tag had it been a tag play. I decided it was equivalent to the ball being in her glove. Is this correct?

Uhhhh... Force out on a runner returning to 1B? Sounds more like a timed appeal play to me.

Am I understanding this correctly here? The runner was returning to the base to tag up on a caught fly ball, and F3 had the ball in her hand and tagged the base before the runner came back. And in doing so, she also tagged the runner with the glove with the ball in her hand, behind the glove?

If she had tagged 1B while in possession of the ball, who cares if she tagged the runner? If she's got the ball outside of the glove and she only tags the runner with the glove, I do not have a tagged runner.

[MichaelVA2000]

Originally Posted by 7in60

In a game last week, there was a force out on a runner returning to 1B. F3 also applied the tag, but the ball was in her bare hand and the glove was sandwiched between the runner and the ball.

If F3 touched first base while in control of the ball before the runner got back to the base, you have an out.

Originally Posted by 7in60

I pondered whether I would have given credit for the tag had it been a tag play. I decided it was equivalent to the ball being in her glove. Is this correct?

Had there not been a force on the play and F3 tagged the runner with her glove while the ball was in F3's bare hand, the runner would be safe.

[DaveASA/FED]

I think this is a HTBT type of play. And as Michael has said if the hands are seperated ball in one glove tags runner then I agree there is no tag with the ball so no out. BUT if the hands are together, ball on top of glove, glove touching runner I would ahve an out. Just like if the ball is in the glove to me same thing. Again it's a HTBT cause if there is space between the ball and the fielder (air gap) then you would not have a tag, but if the ball is connected to the runner, through the mitt or not then I have an out.

[LMan]

As Dave said, this is not a force out. Be clear on that, or it will bite your rump later.

[archangel]

Originally Posted by DaveASA/FED

..... BUT if the hands are together, ball on top of glove, glove touching runner I would ahve an out. Just like if the ball is in the glove to me same thing. Again it's a HTBT cause if there is space between the ball and the fielder (air gap) then you would not have a tag, but if the ball is connected to the runner, through the mitt or not then I have an out.

I have to disagree. Forgetting the OP, dealing just with an ordinary "tag"----a fielder has to have control of the ball in the glove for a glove tag to be ruled a legal tag. Now she could be holding the ball barehanded while that hand is in the glove - legal, but outside?-- you got yourself an angry coach.
I'd like to see a rule from you on this.

You said you have an out, "if ball is connected to runner thru mitt or not"...

i.e. what if the fielder has the ball barehand but only touches her other hand/arm which is touching the runner? Does the glove in between make the difference? If not then a fielder holding the ball could tag a runner w/any part of her body--foot maybe?...An extreme example to show your mistake.

[DaveASA/FED]

Of course not, they have to tag the runner with the ball, all I am saying is they are tagging the runner with the ball if they are touching the mitt that it touching the runner. To me all I am saying is that it doesn't matter if there is one layer of leather between the ball and the runner or two. If the ball is in the mitt and they tag the fielder with the mitt all agree it's an out. In that case there is one layer of leather seperating the ball from the runner. Now if they tag with the glove folded and ball on out side of mitt I am still going to have an out. BUT I will have to see for sure that the ball is TOUCHING the mitt to get an out, any space when there is a tag then i have a safe.

[youngump]

Is there a rule that specifies what in the mitt is? Barring that I'd say controlling the ball against the mitt securely makes the mitt something that can tag, no?
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Class Action Settlement

[7in60]

Originally Posted by youngump

Is there a rule that specifies what in the mitt is? Barring that I'd say controlling the ball against the mitt securely makes the mitt something that can tag, no?

Yes, not a "force out".

The Softball Canada Rule Book says:

"TAG is the act of a fielder touching a runner, while holding the ball securely with his hands or glove, while the runner is in jeopardy".

In my game F3 was holding the ball securely with her hands. One had a glove on it. So we would have an out.

[CecilOne]

The tag has to be made with the hand or hands that control the ball.

If in the OP, the glove hand is just there "making a connection", that does not read like glove hand control, so it would not be a tag.
The connection principle is fine for contact with a base on a force or appeal, but not a tag.

The "Softball Canada Rule Book" definition is incomplete without the applicable rule wording.