plate mechanics

[cloverdale]

behind plate r1 is on first...partner is between 1 and 2...ball goes off end of bat and is spinning o.b. then back in as it goes up 1st base line...r2 is headed for first and r1 is headed for 2nd...I cheat up 1st base line and as r2 passes 1st baseman she gains control of the ball and rotates toward second then towards 1st for a swipe tag at r2...I cannot tell if tag was applied and wait for partner to call 1st base...no call comes and he stares at me until he says your call...I ask him if he seen a tag he says no so I call r2 safe...meantime r1 goes toward 3rd...r1 slides into 3rd I catch the tail end of the play...cant guess an out so she safe...1 coach is happy the other oh well...question is this was this the bases call at first...I waited for an appeal from him...and was 3rd then his if 1st was mine? one more twist would it be different if base would have been tween 2nd and 3rd for the initial call at 1st...

[Dholloway1962]

The way it has been told to me...PU has until the running lane begins, then BU picks it up. If swipe is in the back of the runner the BU and PU have to read each other. If BU can't see the tag PU should make a call. You can get together after the play is over to figure out what each other saw. Gotta make a call quick though when play is happening.

PU has the call at 3rd so he has to bust butt to get there after trailing BR.

SOmeone correct me if I'm wrong, like you wouldn't anyway

[IRISHMAFIA]

What is "o.b."?

[CajunNewBlue]

guessing... out of bounds?

And with a runner at first.... you still trail the br to first to the 3 foot running lane? thats not how we are clinic'd .... trail the runner about 15 feet up then prepare to hook back to third. is pretty much how we are taught.

[Skahtboi]

Originally Posted by cloverdale

behind plate r1 is on first...partner is between 1 and 2...ball goes off end of bat and is spinning o.b. then back in as it goes up 1st base line...r2 is headed for first and r1 is headed for 2nd...I cheat up 1st base line and as r2 passes 1st baseman she gains control of the ball and rotates toward second then towards 1st for a swipe tag at r2...I cannot tell if tag was applied and wait for partner to call 1st base...no call comes and he stares at me until he says your call...I ask him if he seen a tag he says no so I call r2 safe...meantime r1 goes toward 3rd...r1 slides into 3rd I catch the tail end of the play...cant guess an out so she safe...1 coach is happy the other oh well...question is this was this the bases call at first...I waited for an appeal from him...and was 3rd then his if 1st was mine? one more twist would it be different if base would have been tween 2nd and 3rd for the initial call at 1st...

OB, I am assuming means out of bounds, or in dead ball territory. I am guessing from the subsequent action in your post, though, that you really mean "foul territory." Also, it is the BR (batter-runner) who is advancing to first. The reason I make note of this is that it will make it easier for us to understand your posts.

You have the take, as has been noted, up to the running lane. This is a good thing to pregame, though, so that you and your partner will be on the same page. Anything after that is your partner's call on the BR, unless of course she makes it all the way around to home.

If you are about 15 ft up the line to observe this play, it is no problem for you to hustle through the diamond and pick up the play at third. It just takes a little hustle, and had you released when you should have you would have been there to make the call, unless, of course, the call at first was yours. From your post, though, it sounds like the BR was almost to the bag, in which case it was your partner's call all the way.

Again, pregame issues like this so that they won't be a problem. Let your partner know if you will take the BR to the lane or not in the event of the tag.

[DaveASA/FED]

One thing not to forget while we are talking about trailing the BR and then breaking to 3rd, which of course is correct......but lets not forget the PU's first responsibility in this play....fair or foul!! Maybe I am envisioning this incorrectly but when I read the OP it seems to me like this started out in foul territory with back spin and was coming to fair territory, I am envisioning a ball right on the line that F3 picks up and swipe tags BR then fires to 3rd for a play on R1.

If I see this correctly this makes things a little bit harder....PU has to hang at that line till the ball is touched to rule fair/foul....then help on swipe tag if possible (as stated if past running lane it's BU's call, PU just offers help if needed) then you have to get as far as possible to see play at 3rd.

[NCASAUmp]

Originally Posted by DaveASA/FED

One thing not to forget while we are talking about trailing the BR and then breaking to 3rd, which of course is correct......but lets not forget the PU's first responsibility in this play....fair or foul!! Maybe I am envisioning this incorrectly but when I read the OP it seems to me like this started out in foul territory with back spin and was coming to fair territory, I am envisioning a ball right on the line that F3 picks up and swipe tags BR then fires to 3rd for a play on R1.

If I see this correctly this makes things a little bit harder....PU has to hang at that line till the ball is touched to rule fair/foul....then help on swipe tag if possible (as stated if past running lane it's BU's call, PU just offers help if needed) then you have to get as far as possible to see play at 3rd.

Yep, pretty much. Take the BR to the running lane, judge the fair/foul, then haul butt over to 3B for the tag play. Can't close the gap? Get the angle. And if they don't like the call, tell them to ask for a 3-umpire crew at the beginning of next season.

At this point, if it's clear that you need to get to 3B to make a call, your partner's going to have to do his/her best to judge a swipe tag. Your priority as the PU is to get to 3B. Help if you can, but keep your priorities straight. Your call on the runner going to 3B takes priority over helping your partner.

[Andy]

Nothing to disagree with on any of the responses...

The only thing that I can add is not to have the "whose got the call" look between umpires at first base with continuing play. Keep umpiring until the entire play is fininshed, including the play at third. You can always go back after the play is over and discuss the swipe tag at first and rule on it.

[cloverdale]

dave ASA/FED hit it right....and thanks for all the input and the correct terminology...would the BU responibilities change at all if R1 WAS AT 2ND...puts BU behind F6...is the primary still 1st? then who has the call at 3rd.

[Dholloway1962]

Do you have the ASA book? Umpire manual is in the back and answers all those questions.

BU, on hit to infield, takes first throw unless it is to Home. If first throw is to 1B, 2B, or 3B, PU has any subsequent throw to 3B

[kcg NC2Ablu]

First of all with just a runner on first with a two man crew or 3 man crew the plate is still going to trail. Then general rule of thumb is that when the runner going from first to second rounds second as if going to third the pu should be up there. You should trail and help with the tag as best you can and need that second set of eyes even if you are still pealing off to head to third. This would be the same in a 3 man crew because u3 is closed down 8ft from second and now goes to 15 ft to get the 90 and proper depth from f4 for a possible force. then u3 has to rotate around the bag on the outside of the diamond now closing down to 6-8 ft for a possible snap throw to second behind the runner. By this time just as in a 2 man crew the PU should have "half mooned" around toward 3rd base. So technically there is no help there in 3 man crew you just have to keep your eyes open as you peal off and if you are sure you see a tag stop set and call it.

[Dakota]

Originally Posted by kcg NC2Ablu

...if you are still pealing off ...the PU should have "half mooned" ...

We don't use whistles, let alone bells, and I sure as heck ain't mooning the players (at least, not intentionally!)

[kcg NC2Ablu]

well its the best thing that I have to explain it after all if you think about it ... look at a moon pie.... its there... thats the shape that we move....soooo half mooned it is.... by the way if you are mooning anyone at a female fast pitch game... and your a male... you may need more than your cup when the boys in blue show up to haul ya off .... I dont remember saying that you should ring a bell when you break or "peal off " and I also dont remember saying you should blow a whistle to sell a call....

[Skahtboi]

Originally Posted by kcg NC2Ablu

well its the best thing that I have to explain it after all if you think about it ... look at a moon pie.... its there... thats the shape that we move....soooo half mooned it is.... by the way if you are mooning anyone at a female fast pitch game... and your a male... you may need more than your cup when the boys in blue show up to haul ya off .... I dont remember saying that you should ring a bell when you break or "peal off " and I also dont remember saying you should blow a whistle to sell a call....

I believe the reference Tom was making was to the use of peal for peel.

[Dakota]

Originally Posted by Skahtboi

I believe the reference Tom was making was to the use of peal for peel.

Yeah, and it was just poking fun...