Line-Up Mess

[Dholloway1962]

This happened this weekend at an ASA tournament I was at. Thankfully not on my field! At plate pre-game conference Team A presents line-up as follows:
B1
B2
B4
B5
B6
B7
B8
B9

S1

Notice coach had a brain fart and left off B3. Umpire didn't catch it either.

B1 and B2 reach base. B3 grounds out. B4 then flies out. (B1 and B2 still on base). After B4 flies out, Team B comes out and says batting out of order. Umpires figure out that the line-up didn't include B3. B.O.O. is moot as a pitch has been thrown.

How the heck do you straighten this mess out? I've been through the book in my off time this weekend and can't quite figure out what applies, illegal player, unreported sub, or what!

The umpires disqualified B3 as an illegal player and placed S1 in the 9th spot of the batting order. Is that what should have been done of something else

[LIIRISHMAN]

Being this was tournament play I see no other recourse for the umpire other then the disqualification of the player. This should be a learning experience for that coach and one he won't forget.

[Dakota]

Originally Posted by LIIRISHMAN

Being this was tournament play I see no other recourse for the umpire other then the disqualification of the player. This should be a learning experience for that coach and one he won't forget.

Should also be a learning experience for the plate umpire. How hard is it to count the number of players in the batting order? That is something I always do. If I get nine, I say, "Coach, your batting a straight 9 with x subs, correct?

If I get 10, I then look for who is noted as DP and FLEX, and confirm that with the coach.

It is amazing how many times the coach has 9 listed, but intended to list a DP/FLEX or has 10 listed but has screwed up where the FLEX goes. And this doesn't count those who list a "DH".

A very simple exercise that would have avoided this altogether....

"Coach, you can't bat 8 and list 1 sub. Please fix your lineup."

[Skahtboi]

Originally Posted by Dakota

Should also be a learning experience for the plate umpire. How hard is it to count the number of players in the batting order? That is something I always do. If I get nine, I say, "Coach, your batting a straight 9 with x subs, correct?

If I get 10, I then look for who is noted as DP and FLEX, and confirm that with the coach.

It is amazing how many times the coach has 9 listed, but intended to list a DP/FLEX or has 10 listed but has screwed up where the FLEX goes. And this doesn't count those who list a "DH".

A very simple exercise that would have avoided this altogether....

"Coach, you can't bat 8 and list 1 sub. Please fix your lineup."

Exactly what I, and every umpire, should do.

[MNBlue]

Originally Posted by Skahtboi

Exactly what I, and every umpire, should do.

Ditto.

[Steve M]

Originally Posted by MNBlue

Ditto.

yup, agreed.

[SRW]

Guys, he's not asking how you prevent it from happening - he's asking how you fix it after you've f*ked it up by not preventing it from happening.

[Back In The Saddle]

Originally Posted by SRW

Guys, he's not asking how you prevent it from happening - he's asking how you fix it after you've f*ked it up by not preventing it from happening.

I was taught in the Mr. Miagi school of umpiring, "best defense is no be there." Preventing it IS the right answer. All the rest is just cleaning up the mess.

But I see your point.

[AtlUmpSteve]

B3 is not an illegal sub, so far as we know. If she is on the team roster, has not been ejected or disqualified, and not used eligibility in this game, she would be legal. She was, however, unreported.

I have unreported B3 hitting for B4. I have an illegal (and unreported) re-entry by B4 who batted for B5. I have two disqualifications, (B3 disqualified as unreported sub, not an additional out, and B4 disqualified for illegal re-entry) not ejections, and the third out charged to B5 (for whom B4 batted out of order). Therefore, S1 can replace B4, and the game can continue shorthanded; B6 is the first batter next inning, and the 9th spot (vacant in the initial lineup) remains a shorthanded out.

Nice job by the umpire who should have prevented every bit of this; but, the coach made the first and most accountable mistake.

[LIIRISHMAN]

The way the OP originally described the situation your only recourse is your rulebook! That is what this game is played by, as Dakota stated the coach and umpire screwed up. My one problem here is responsibility ultimately of the H/C for submitting a defective line-up. Also I would place some % of fault(a small one) on the PU for not checking line-up thoroughly.

[Dakota]

Apart from what the coach intended, what he did was submit an illegal lineup with only 8 batters listed, he listed one substitute, and had one rostered player he did not list on the lineup.

On that last point, it doesn't matter. She can still enter the game as a sub. (4-1-A-2)

If B3 is considered an unreported substitute for B4, then you have the problem of what to do with B4.

If B4 is considered an illegal re-entry for B5, then she is not batting out of order. So, she is an unreported illegal player, not BOO.

Batting out of order is an appeal that must come from the defense.

An unreported substitute is a protest that must come from the defense for there to be a penalty.

Since the defense appealed BOO, and since there is no BOO, the appeal is denied. Play ball and see if either coach can figure out what the infraction is and either correct it (offense) or file a proper protest (defense).

[Dholloway1962]

Originally Posted by SRW

Guys, he's not asking how you prevent it from happening - he's asking how you fix it after you've f*ked it up by not preventing it from happening.

Thx SRW! The PU knows he screwed the pooch and it's one of those things he will probably never forget to do again. What ruling do you make and what part of the rule book do you use? Just in case it, or somthing similar, ever happened again