Called 3K, ASA SP

[HawkeyeCubP]

Backwards K in ASA SP is to be called no different that called strike 2, according to the UIC and staff of the last national I worked.

A. I personally feel, however 1) that it is somewhat ridiculous to take a called strike 3 in that game, and 2) if it was some amazing pitch that is the equivalent of a good defensive play for which you would award at least a punch of a sell-out somewhere else on the field, why not do it then?

B. How is taking a called strike three any different, ideologically and semantically, from taking a called strike three in a FP game? Why is it "unnecessary" extra showmanship in one, but not in the other? To anyone who says you're "showing up the batter" in one but not the other, or vice versa, please explain.

I've never received anything close to a good answer to B from any other SP umpire who argues against it - always just the old "we're not here to show up the batter" - To which I always want to reply, "That's weird, because you jump out of your shoes and holler loud enough for the scoreboard operator outside of the center field fence when you call a 12-year-old girl out for the same thing."

Those things being said, I don't sell out called strike 3 in SP.

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally Posted by HawkeyeCubP

B. How is taking a called strike three any different, ideologically and semantically, from taking a called strike three in a FP game? Why is it "unnecessary" extra showmanship in one, but not in the other? To anyone who says you're "showing up the batter" in one but not the other, or vice versa, please explain.

I've never received anything close to a good answer to B from any other SP umpire who argues against it - always just the old "we're not here to show up the batter" - To which I always want to reply, "That's weird, because you jump out of your shoes and holler loud enough for the scoreboard operator outside of the center field fence when you call a 12-year-old girl out for the same thing."

Well, maybe the latter is no more right than the former.

But if you want an answer to B, look at A in your post. A called 3K in SP is, or at least should be, the anomaly since contacting the ball in FP is much more difficult. Then again, many may argue that hitting the strike zone in FP is more difficult than in SP.

Either way, I'm not a fan of the additional theatrics on a called 3rd strike in any game, but that's just me.

[jimpiano]

Originally Posted by IRISHMAFIA

Well, maybe the latter is no more right than the former.

But if you want an answer to B, look at A in your post. A called 3K in SP is, or at least should be, the anomaly since contacting the ball in FP is much more difficult. Then again, many may argue that hitting the strike zone in FP is more difficult than in SP.

Either way, I'm not a fan of the additional theatrics on a called 3rd strike in any game, but that's just me.

Strike three does not need to be theatrics, but it does need to be final and leave no doubt. I would never ring up a novice, or a co-ed, but a man who should know better in a game for hitters? Not a problem.

[bkbjones]

Originally Posted by jimpiano

Strike three does not need to be theatrics, but it does need to be final and leave no doubt. I would never ring up a novice, or a co-ed, but a man who should know better in a game for hitters? Not a problem.

so a novice gets only a single fist pump?

[jimpiano]

Originally Posted by bkbjones

so a novice gets only a single fist pump?

What is a "single fist pump"?

[bkbjones]

Originally Posted by jimpiano

What is a "single fist pump"?

Half of a double fist pump

[HawkeyeCubP]

Originally Posted by jimpiano

Strike three does not need to be theatrics, but it does need to be final and leave no doubt. I would never ring up a novice, or a co-ed, but a man who should know better in a game for hitters? Not a problem.

To be clear, are you saying you have no problem wringing up a male SP player, but are against the same for a female SP player?

[NCASAUmp]

Originally Posted by HawkeyeCubP

To be clear, are you saying you have no problem wringing up a male SP player, but are against the same for a female SP player?

*cringe* I'm actually going to side a little with pianoman here (and bear with me, I can only see what John quoted). Please, please forgive me, o' Lord.

I personally think it depends on the level of play. If it's more of a recreational league, that level of intensity strikes me as a little out of place. They're just there to have fun, and calls don't always need to be sold. Just call the strike or call the runner out, and let it be that. Most "fun" leagues are perfectly okay with that, and the simple calls are more appropriate to the environment. In higher levels of competition, selling your call is more appropriate, and is almost expected in a bang-bang play (or a called corner strike 3).

Last night, I called 2 women's games that were in the same league, same level. The first game, it was two teams that were clearly there just for recreation and fun. I never sold a call, and everyone had a good time. The second game was between two higher-level teams (a few travel team players were on both teams). I sold the few close calls there were, and everyone was fine with it - almost as though they expected it.

It's a question of intensity, and how it relates to the environment you're in. If your level of intensity doesn't match the environment, you'll stick out like a sore thumb, change the dynamic of the game, and you'll not be very well-received on the field.

[SRW]

Originally Posted by NCASAUmp

I personally think it depends on the level of play.

Not me, man. I love ringing up the office secretary on strike three and making her walk back to the dugout in shame, about to burst into tears. Can't handle the heat, get the f*ck outta my kitchen!



I'm joking... and I actually agree with you 100%

[NCASAUmp]

Originally Posted by SRW

Not me, man. I love ringing up the office secretary on strike three and making her walk back to the dugout in shame, about to burst into tears. Can't handle the heat, get the f*ck outta my kitchen!



I'm joking... and I actually agree with you 100%

Wow. The old psych major in me darn near had a heart attack!

[jimpiano]

Originally Posted by HawkeyeCubP

To be clear, are you saying you have no problem wringing up a male SP player, but are against the same for a female SP player?

No. The word I chose was co-ed which connotes a one-day-a-week recreational player.

[HawkeyeCubP]

Originally Posted by jimpiano

No. The word I chose was co-ed which connotes a one-day-a-week recreational player.

Sorry for the confusion on my part. I work in the recreational sports field (specifically, university campus recreation), and in my profession (and according to the ASA) "coed" refers to teams composed of both males and females, and/or simply a female participant. The term actually originated from when women were admitted into previously all-male institutions of higher-learning in the 19th century, hence, a "co-educational" experience was being offered to both men and women. The term, "coed," then, basically stuck with any woman who was enrolled at a college or university with both sexes. (I remember about 10 things from my college educaiton - this is one of them. )

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally Posted by HawkeyeCubP

(I remember about 10 things from my college educaiton - this is one of them. )

Along with all of the other important stuff like how many cups in a half keg, blind dexterity dealing with snaps/clasps, how to find the "good" used text books, etc.

[wadeintothem]

Originally Posted by HawkeyeCubP

Backwards K in ASA SP is to be called no different that called strike 2, according to the UIC and staff of the last national I worked.

A. I personally feel, however 1) that it is somewhat ridiculous to take a called strike 3 in that game, and 2) if it was some amazing pitch that is the equivalent of a good defensive play for which you would award at least a punch of a sell-out somewhere else on the field, why not do it then?

B. How is taking a called strike three any different, ideologically and semantically, from taking a called strike three in a FP game? Why is it "unnecessary" extra showmanship in one, but not in the other? To anyone who says you're "showing up the batter" in one but not the other, or vice versa, please explain.

I've never received anything close to a good answer to B from any other SP umpire who argues against it - always just the old "we're not here to show up the batter" - To which I always want to reply, "That's weird, because you jump out of your shoes and holler loud enough for the scoreboard operator outside of the center field fence when you call a 12-year-old girl out for the same thing."

Those things being said, I don't sell out called strike 3 in SP.

Because they snivel more than a 12 y/o?

Its not a pitching game... sell out is for selling an out and your zone on good pitches. The same as any other sell out call. Its not necessary for slow pitch.

[NCASAUmp]

Originally Posted by wadeintothem

Because they snivel more than a 12 y/o?

Its not a pitching game... sell out is for selling an out and your zone on good pitches. The same as any other sell out call. Its not necessary for slow pitch.

Well, let's be clear in that what I was referring to was just the arm motion. My feet stay heel-toe. I'm simply making the crisp verbal "strike," signaling the strike, then dropping my arm from upper right to lower left, kinda like a throw (or as close to a throwing motion my torn rotator will allow). It's like a half throw, half downward punch.