Will coaches ever learn OBS?

[DaveASA/FED]

Had two FED games in a row where coaches came out to argue an OBS call on almost identical plays. R1 going from 2nd to 3rd fielder setup in way slide into feet prior to control of the ball. Pretty much textbook from all angles.

1st coach comes out and asks BU about it, he explains...coach goes nuts talking about well where is she suppose to setup? You are wrong that is not what the rules says that is crazy youd have OBS on every play if that was the rule....(I'm waiting to ump next game off field thinking, well the way your team has been setting up your right!).

Next game (I am PU) almost the same exact play at 3rd again OBS awarded 3rd base. Different 2 teams defensive coach comes out and complains (much more civil) about the same thing about having the right to be there to catch the ball.

Neither had any doubt the hindering occurred prior to ball control....just neither had any clue the rule changed to require control prior to hinderance!

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally Posted by DaveASA/FED

Had two FED games in a row where coaches came out to argue an OBS call on almost identical plays. R1 going from 2nd to 3rd fielder setup in way slide into feet prior to control of the ball. Pretty much textbook from all angles.

1st coach comes out and asks BU about it, he explains...coach goes nuts talking about well where is she suppose to setup? You are wrong that is not what the rules says that is crazy youd have OBS on every play if that was the rule....(I'm waiting to ump next game off field thinking, well the way your team has been setting up your right!).

Next game (I am PU) almost the same exact play at 3rd again OBS awarded 3rd base. Different 2 teams defensive coach comes out and complains (much more civil) about the same thing about having the right to be there to catch the ball.

Neither had any doubt the hindering occurred prior to ball control....just neither had any clue the rule changed to require control prior to hinderance!

Sounds like you had a couple of baseball guys playing softball coach.

[Andy]

I had this play last week.

B1 singles to left field, F3 is standing on the inside corner of 1B. As B1 rounds first, she bumps into F3. I signal the DDB. B1 and first base coach see the signal and B1 breaks for second. Ball is thrown to F4 and B1 is easily tagged before reaching second. I kill the ball, announce the obstruction on F3 and send B1 back to first. In my judgement, there was no way she was making second base even without the obstruction.

The offensive team head coach, a knowlegable guy and never a problem, comes out to me. He asks if I had the obstruction, I tell him yes. He asks me why his runner does not get second base. I told him that in my judgement, there was no way she was making second base even without the obstruction. He kind of smiles at me, says OK and goes back to his dugout.

There is no doubt in my mind that he could have talked a good number of our HS umpires around here into awarding second base.

[MGKBLUE]

To answer your question. I would say no.

What I have tried is carrying a copy of the 2006 POE on obstruction from the High School rule book. I believe that this is one of the best explanations of the rule.

I have in the past, given a copy of the POE to a coach after the game. A few days later I had the coaches game again and he said that after reading the POE he had a better understanding of the rule and its application. I have no had a problem with the same coach again.

[Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.]

Originally Posted by Andy

I had this play last week.

B1 singles to left field, F3 is standing on the inside corner of 1B. As B1 rounds first, she bumps into F3. I signal the DDB. B1 and first base coach see the signal and B1 breaks for second. Ball is thrown to F4 and B1 is easily tagged before reaching second. I kill the ball, announce the obstruction on F3 and send B1 back to first. In my judgement, there was no way she was making second base even without the obstruction.

The offensive team head coach, a knowlegable guy and never a problem, comes out to me. He asks if I had the obstruction, I tell him yes. He asks me why his runner does not get second base. I told him that in my judgement, there was no way she was making second base even without the obstruction. He kind of smiles at me, says OK and goes back to his dugout.

There is no doubt in my mind that he could have talked a good number of our HS umpires around here into awarding second base.

Andy:

Let me get this straight. You called obstruction then refused to penalize it.

MTD, Sr.

[wadeintothem]

Originally Posted by Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.

Andy:

Let me get this straight. You called obstruction then refused to penalize it.

MTD, Sr.

He called the play right.

You might be confusing this game with a different game involving a smaller ball.

[BretMan]

As wiser minds than my own have put it, in softball we do not "penailze" obstruction (ie: award additional bases).

Rather, we "negate the effects of" obstruction- by awarding exactly the base that we judge the runner would have achieved minus the obstruction.

[BretMan]

Originally Posted by IRISHMAFIA

Sounds like you had a couple of baseball guys playing softball coach.

If that is so, then (assuming FED baseball guys) they were baseball guys not well-versed in the 2008 baseball rule changes!

[Lastump]

i don't follow, if the DDB doesn't protect the runner to 2b, why signal DDB if the OBS had no affect on the runner. what am i missing?

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally Posted by Lastump

i don't follow, if the DDB doesn't protect the runner to 2b, why signal DDB if the OBS had no affect on the runner. what am i missing?

It is not possible to have OBS not affect the runner. If it didn't affect the runner, it wouldn't be OBS.

[wadeintothem]

Originally Posted by Lastump

i don't follow, if the DDB doesn't protect the runner to 2b, why signal DDB if the OBS had no affect on the runner. what am i missing?

DDB does protect the runner between the bases where obstructed, and they cannot be called out. The award is based on where the umpire judges the runner would have made it had there been no obs. In softball, the rule that you always place the runner at least one base beyond the base last touched does not exist.

So if you have OBS between 1&2, and the runner is put out, and the umpire judges they wouldnt have made it to 2B in any case, you would put them back to 1B. As opposed to OBR, where you would put them to at least 2B.

[SRW]

Originally Posted by wadeintothem

DDB does protect the runner between the bases where obstructed, and they cannot be called out.

DDB doesn't protect them... the umpire determining that there was OBS protects them.

And also, there are 5 ways that a runner can indeed be called out between the bases they were OBS'd...

But I'm just being Captain Obvious...