Obstruction - One More Time

[GDW]

Thanks. And thanks for the kind welcome.

[AtlUmpSteve]

Originally Posted by Dholloway1962

If this all happened "fluidly" then I don't see obstruction at all. I think you have a collision. Maybe I'm missing something or maybe it's one of those HTBT things.

Personally, I think you ARE missing something. "Fluidly" is absolutely and totally immaterial. What does matter is that the fielder impeded the runner while not in possession of the ball (ball falls out, R1 collides with F6 sans ball). Filelder was legally there when she had the ball; falls out, and she can no longer be there. And, yes, that she means she must go "poof".

Unless you do not understand that "sans" means WITHOUT.

[JefferMC]

Now... nearly the exact same play happened last night. Same F2 and F6. Not as good a throw, F6 never had the ball (it did bounce off the tip of her glove). No DDB signal, No OBS called. Runner stays at 2B.

Now... aftering seeing this, I'm rethinking Monday night: The ball fell right in front of 2B. Either F4 or F6 could easily have picked up the ball and thrown R1 out at 3B. Heck F1 probably could have. But with R1 jogging to 3B with BU trailing behind her with the arm out, there just didn't seem to be much point.

I'm still cool with the OBS call, made while the runner was between 1B and 2B, and protection to 2B. But, if F6 had never collided with R1, then R1 would have been a fool to try for 3B. Now, I couldn't hear the BU "award" 3B to R1, but BU holding the arm out while following her to 3B would sure give me (if I were an infielder) pause at trying to throw her out.

[Dholloway1962]

Originally Posted by AtlUmpSteve

Personally, I think you ARE missing something. "Fluidly" is absolutely and totally immaterial. What does matter is that the fielder impeded the runner while not in possession of the ball (ball falls out, R1 collides with F6 sans ball). Filelder was legally there when she had the ball; falls out, and she can no longer be there. And, yes, that she means she must go "poof".

Unless you do not understand that "sans" means WITHOUT.

I was reading fluidly as more of an instantaneous moment. F6 comes up to make tag and at the last second drops ball then contact occurs. Just because there is contact doesn't always translate into OBS or INT in every situation. Still have some issues with this one but don't mean to say I disagree with the call.

[Dakota]

Originally Posted by JefferMC

Now... nearly the exact same play happened last night. Same F2 and F6. Not as good a throw, F6 never had the ball (it did bounce off the tip of her glove). No DDB signal, No OBS called. Runner stays at 2B.

Now... aftering seeing this, I'm rethinking Monday night: The ball fell right in front of 2B. Either F4 or F6 could easily have picked up the ball and thrown R1 out at 3B. Heck F1 probably could have. But with R1 jogging to 3B with BU trailing behind her with the arm out, there just didn't seem to be much point.

I'm still cool with the OBS call, made while the runner was between 1B and 2B, and protection to 2B. But, if F6 had never collided with R1, then R1 would have been a fool to try for 3B. Now, I couldn't hear the BU "award" 3B to R1, but BU holding the arm out while following her to 3B would sure give me (if I were an infielder) pause at trying to throw her out.

Holding the arm out in the DDB signal only means DDB. The duration of holding the arm out does not (should not) mean anything at all.

[Dakota]

Originally Posted by Dholloway1962

I was reading fluidly as more of an instantaneous moment. F6 comes up to make tag and at the last second drops ball then contact occurs. Just because there is contact doesn't always translate into OBS or INT in every situation. Still have some issues with this one but don't mean to say I disagree with the call.

ASA RS on Crash Interference, paragraph G:

When the ball, runner and the defensive player arrive at the same time and place, and contact is made, the umpire should not invoke the crash rule, interference, or obstruction. This is merely incidental contact, or what some persons commonly call, “a wreck.”

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally Posted by Dakota

ASA RS on Crash Interference, paragraph G:

Quote:

When the ball, runner and the defensive player arrive at the same time and place, and contact is made, the umpire should not invoke the crash rule, interference, or obstruction. This is merely incidental contact, or what some persons commonly call, “a wreck.”

And if no one is placed at a disadvantage, I can accept that. What I cannot accept is someone using this as an excuse for not calling OBS when this "wreck" has dropped a runner to the ground, stunned and/or incapacitated in any manner prior to attaining the base.

[Dakota]

I agree, Mike. I was responding to Dholloway1962's statement that "Just because there is contact doesn't always translate into OBS or INT in every situation."

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally Posted by Dakota

I agree, Mike. I was responding to Dholloway1962's statement that "Just because there is contact doesn't always translate into OBS or INT in every situation."

I understand, just don't like that "general statement" because it flies in the face of the present OBS rule.