Their only.....

[Skahtboi]

Originally Posted by CajunNewBlue

I should have mentioned this... I only do FED ball during the season and some USFA and AFA during the summer.... All ejections were during the FED season..... No I dont have rabbit ears (not abnormally so.) But, we are on school property during a school event... language is appropriate to anything a teacher would allow in a hallway during normal classes. as an example: ejection on SS for saying "b*llSh*t... she also caught a in school suspension. Adults who drop the F-bomb are gone... adults who say "Blue you suck" (not that they would ever say that about me ) are ignored... till game management walks over .

Then you have gone beyond the scope of NFHS rules. That is why NFHS expects schools to provide an onsight director (an official school employee). This is not the scope of sports officials, as Mike has already pointed. If you hear something inappropriate, can you inform the school administrator? By all means. But you do not eject a fan. Nothing to allow you to do so.

Mike has pretty well covered what I was hinting at (as could be expected.)

[Skahtboi]

Originally Posted by CajunNewBlue

I should have mentioned this... I only do FED ball during the season and some USFA and AFA during the summer.... All ejections were during the FED season..... No I dont have rabbit ears (not abnormally so.) But, we are on school property during a school event... language is appropriate to anything a teacher would allow in a hallway during normal classes. as an example: ejection on SS for saying "b*llSh*t... she also caught a in school suspension. Adults who drop the F-bomb are gone... adults who say "Blue you suck" (not that they would ever say that about me ) are ignored... till game management walks over .

The field and players are your domain. So yes, you can eject the SS. However, the fans are not your domain, even if they drop the F bomb. That, once again, is for the on sight administrator to tend to.

[Skahtboi]

Originally Posted by cpa

Well, this is gonna be my last word on this -- but my wife is a school teacher and I am a parent w/ 3 kids who have all played ball growing up. I believe I have a pretty good feel for what parents and administration expect out of me when it comes to dealing with over-the-top fans.

I can tell you that in my umpiring experience that in many cases the umpire is THE authority figure at the park, unless it is a tournament, school or college setting. The lower the level of ball, the more likely it will be that "you're on your own"

Part of the problem w/ society today is that teachers and other authority figures tolerate way more than they should because of legal fears, lack of administrative support, eroding standards, etc.

So what if the kids have heard cussing before -- I can tell you where I live people expect those in authority to rein in and to curb such behavior. I,m not talking about rabbit ears umpires -- I'm talking about idiots who don't know how to act around kids, or in a church league setting, etc. The people that I work for, that my association works for, absolutely expect that sort of behavior to be dealt with.

I am not looking for it, I am not listening for it or seeking it out in any way -- but I can forcefully deal with it in a polite, most of the time discreet way when it happens -- by myself if practical, but by engaging administration if need be

I am not a prude, not particularly religious either -- just a guy w/ enough common sense to not hide behind a rule book that doesn't happen to have an explicit rule covering fart boxes or people screaming "horsesh.t" at 12 year old kids

And herein lies the problem. I am a teacher. If I am busy listening to what is going on in the halls or in the classroom next door, how do I have time to attend to my teaching duties in my classroom. And believe me, I am as tough a displinarian as you will find. There are things written all over this school about me because of how tough I am. (And they aren't too nice!)

When I umpire, my duties are on the field, between the fences. (My classroom, if you are missing the analogy.) I have way too much to do there to spend my time policing the domain of the on site administrator. (These folk get extra pay to be here. They are paid to police the crowd and to be there in the event of any major problem. I have found most do an excellent job, but there are those that might need a little prodding to their job.)

Am I hiding behind the rule book. No. I am doing the job for which I am being paid.

[Bandit]

It is amazing how far this thread has gone. My original thought was to please ask umpires to not be-little the efforts or ages of ANY softball player. And this has gone to comments about 300$ bats, daddy ball and finally some umpires who think that not only is it ok to but their responsibilty to "police" the crowd. WOW! What scares me is that while your taking care of the crowd who has "never" scored a single run in ANY game that I have ever officiated your screwing up a really great game that is going on between the fences. The best line in this entire thread was when when one gentleman stated something to the effect of that particular comment would be his last. thank god.

[cpa]

Folks -- I'm not talking about Fed ball, college ball or even well run rec ball -- hell, that's the easiest ball to call because you do have outside controls and sanctions available to restrain egregious behavior -- I'm talking about the kind of ball where the umpire is pretty much it as far as controlling the field for a safe and appropriate environment for kids.

When an administrator is NOT present, or is unavailable, I am not going to bury my head in the sand because "it ain't my job". I have seen too many episodes where taunting between the first and third base bleachers a) distracted the kids trying to enjoy the game when parents were acting the fool, or b) worse, the situation escalated into "fighting words" either behind home plate or in the parking lot. Police were called, in several cases, because the umpires let situations get out of hand when a firm hand minutes earlier would have stopped it cold.

An authoritative umpire working WITH and THROUGH coaches can nip that stuff in the bud -- most of the time it has the effect of reminding the folks that they are there to watch their kids and that they may be deprived of that if they continue.

I'm not viewed as heavy-handed and I have had the opportunity to officiate many games thru the years involving bitter rivals where trouble might be expected -- and I think I've had 5-6 ejections in 20 years

The governing boards where I work know they are not gonna have a bunch of extracurricular crap going on in the stands. They know I expect the kids to play and hopefully have fun but I absolutely expect to grown ups to act like adults.

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally Posted by wadeintothem

Some umpires are really touchy about the slightest cuss word.. you'd think the poor lil thangs are gonna melt if they hear it..

I'm on the trailing end of my last kid becoming an adult.. I can assure every umpire, they have heard the word before.

Hell, it is a requirement in the Philadelphia sports arenas that each parent and grandparent teach their kids the proper etiquette to support their team. It's not hard and most kids pick it up by the time they are 5 years old.

It goes:

_________________________ SUCKS!
(enter opponent's name here)

When they hit their teens, each child is required to take it to the next level to be considered a true Philly sports fan.


That one goes:

_________________________ F***ING SUCKS!
(enter opponent's name here)


Once they get old enough to possibly inherit the family's season tickets, each child must take it to the final level to qualify for the tickets.


The final exam goes:

_________________________ F***ING SUCKS!
(enter opponent's name here)

This is accompanied by a minimum 50' toss of a half-full beer cup in the direction of the field/floor/opposing player.
And you wonder why opposing players don't like Philadelphia fans

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally Posted by cpa

Well, this is gonna be my last word on this -- but my wife is a school teacher and I am a parent w/ 3 kids who have all played ball growing up. I believe I have a pretty good feel for what parents and administration expect out of me when it comes to dealing with over-the-top fans.

I can tell you that in my umpiring experience that in many cases the umpire is THE authority figure at the park, unless it is a tournament, school or college setting. The lower the level of ball, the more likely it will be that "you're on your own"

Part of the problem w/ society today is that teachers and other authority figures tolerate way more than they should because of legal fears, lack of administrative support, eroding standards, etc.

So what if the kids have heard cussing before -- I can tell you where I live people expect those in authority to rein in and to curb such behavior. I,m not talking about rabbit ears umpires -- I'm talking about idiots who don't know how to act around kids, or in a church league setting, etc. The people that I work for, that my association works for, absolutely expect that sort of behavior to be dealt with.

I am not looking for it, I am not listening for it or seeking it out in any way -- but I can forcefully deal with it in a polite, most of the time discreet way when it happens -- by myself if practical, but by engaging administration if need be

I am not a prude, not particularly religious either -- just a guy w/ enough common sense to not hide behind a rule book that doesn't happen to have an explicit rule covering fart boxes or people screaming "horsesh.t" at 12 year old kids

Rubbish. You hit the key words, parents and administrators.

Behavioral issues off the field are their responsibility, not the umpire's. When you show up to officiate ANY sporting event, you are there for a specific reason and, as mentioned earlier, not to babysit.

I really don't care how you run your life and raise your kids, that is not only your business, but responsibility. The same as it is for every other family out there. You may have a wonderful sets of standards set for your children and if you are successful with getting your children to understand and accepting them, great job. However, that doesn't mean you get to determine how others live.

If you take offense to how things are going, stop the game and tell the coaches to deal with it, but do not use the rule book as your authority, it isn't. For as much as there is nothing in the rule book giving you the authority outside the fence, there is also nothing which requires you to continue a game under unacceptable conditions. Again, let the people whom are responsible for those in question handle it. And, if they refuse, those people you can get rid of.

[Skahtboi]

You said:

Originally Posted by cpa

When an administrator is NOT present, or is unavailable, I am not going to bury my head in the sand because "it ain't my job".

And Mike offered a way to do it properly. But this following statement you made implies that even if an adminstrator is present, you still see it as your job to police the stands:

Originally Posted by cpa

I am not looking for it, I am not listening for it or seeking it out in any way -- but I can forcefully deal with it in a polite, most of the time discreet way when it happens -- by myself if practical, but by engaging administration if need be

Your first line of action if there is administration available, should be to alert them, and then turn your focus back to your duties.

[wadeintothem]

Originally Posted by Bandit

It is amazing how far this thread has gone. My original thought was to please ask umpires to not be-little the efforts or ages of ANY softball player. And this has gone to comments about 300$ bats, daddy ball and finally some umpires who think that not only is it ok to but their responsibilty to "police" the crowd. WOW! What scares me is that while your taking care of the crowd who has "never" scored a single run in ANY game that I have ever officiated your screwing up a really great game that is going on between the fences. The best line in this entire thread was when when one gentleman stated something to the effect of that particular comment would be his last. thank god.

SHhhh

We've given your post all due consideration, now leave us be, there is a better topic at hand.

[CajunNewBlue]

Originally Posted by Skahtboi

Then you have gone beyond the scope of NFHS rules. That is why NFHS expects schools to provide an onsight director (an official school employee). This is not the scope of sports officials, as Mike has already pointed. If you hear something inappropriate, can you inform the school administrator? By all means. But you do not eject a fan. Nothing to allow you to do so.

Mike has pretty well covered what I was hinting at (as could be expected.)

Everyone i can see and hear when I am calling a game is subject to MUH AUTHHHHORITY (ok that was a bad southpark imitation) but taken with a grain of salt it is actually true. I truly dont see the difference in either of the following scenerio's and I've done it both ways...
Scenario #1. Fan is dropping f-bombs in a FED game... I call time.... walk off the field and find "game management" who is usually 500 yards away at the gate collecting gate fees, I tell them i have a fan that needs to go, they proceed to walk with me back to the field, we have a nice little chat about our children and the weather, upon returning to the field, he/she asks ok who is causing the problem? I point at the person, he/she asks me "do they need to go?" I nod yes.... he/she proceeds to remove the person.
Scenario #2. Fan is dropping f-bombs in a FED game... I call time.. point at the person and say sir/ma'am you are gone. watch fan leave... announce play ball. between innings i send a runner to tell game management that a fan has been ejected (with details as to what team they were with and anything else i deem pertinent. by next inning game management appears and we talk about the ejection, they says sorry (dunno why ) and then thanks for handling it.

[Big Slick]

Originally Posted by CajunNewBlue

Everyone i can see and hear when I am calling a game is subject to MUH AUTHHHHORITY (ok that was a bad southpark imitation)

I am sure most of you have seen or discussed this:
http://www.roanoke.com/news/breaking/wb/68849

[Dakota]

What's the rest of the story?

[CajunNewBlue]

Originally Posted by Big Slick

I am sure most of you have seen or discussed this:
http://www.roanoke.com/news/breaking/wb/68849

As long as she is assaulting the police officers and not the umpires..

[Skahtboi]

Originally Posted by CajunNewBlue

Everyone i can see and hear when I am calling a game is subject to MUH AUTHHHHORITY (ok that was a bad southpark imitation) but taken with a grain of salt it is actually true. I truly dont see the difference in either of the following scenerio's and I've done it both ways...
Scenario #1. Fan is dropping f-bombs in a FED game... I call time.... walk off the field and find "game management" who is usually 500 yards away at the gate collecting gate fees, I tell them i have a fan that needs to go, they proceed to walk with me back to the field, we have a nice little chat about our children and the weather, upon returning to the field, he/she asks ok who is causing the problem? I point at the person, he/she asks me "do they need to go?" I nod yes.... he/she proceeds to remove the person.
Scenario #2. Fan is dropping f-bombs in a FED game... I call time.. point at the person and say sir/ma'am you are gone. watch fan leave... announce play ball. between innings i send a runner to tell game management that a fan has been ejected (with details as to what team they were with and anything else i deem pertinent. by next inning game management appears and we talk about the ejection, they says sorry (dunno why ) and then thanks for handling it.

Maybe that is the difference. Around here, the site admin are hovering around the back of the crowd and the people charged with collecting game fees are doing their job. Often, the admin will hear something before those of us on the field do. Sometimes, we have to engage them to do their job. And once in my career, it resulted in a report being sent to state and the admin who was also an AD of the school receiving an official reprimand, because he actually left the site when asked to remove some rowdy/cussing fans. Luckily, another coach was there and he stepped in and performed the job the AD should have. (Oddly enough, he is now that school's AD.)

[CajunNewBlue]

Originally Posted by Skahtboi

Maybe that is the difference. Around here, the site admin are hovering around the back of the crowd and the people charged with collecting game fees are doing their job. Often, the admin will hear something before those of us on the field do. Sometimes, we have to engage them to do their job. And once in my career, it resulted in a report being sent to state and the admin who was also an AD of the school receiving an official reprimand, because he actually left the site when asked to remove some rowdy/cussing fans. Luckily, another coach was there and he stepped in and performed the job the AD should have. (Oddly enough, he is now that school's AD.)

I can appreciate that and given those set of circumstances, I agree wholeheartedly.... and I apologize for participating in hijacking this thread..